Boston Celtics 87, Phoenix Suns 79 — Great run, same ending

Posted by on January 10th, 12:08 am

The Phoenix Suns switched up the script a bit, yet the ending remained the same.

As has been the case in nearly every game this season, the Suns played some quality stretches of basketball but enough inconsistency persisted for the Celtics to win rather easily, 87-79.

This included a monster 17-0 third quarter run after Boston started to run away with the game in the second quarter and a weak ending that followed the big spurt.

“We play well at times, but we weren’t all season long able to play well all 48 minutes, one game of 48 minutes of good basketball,” Luis Scola told reporters. “We always have lapses, sometimes it happens early, sometimes it happens a little bit later. Sometimes it’s the first unit, sometimes it’s the second unit, but it always happens. And we just lose games because we couldn’t fix it and it happens pretty much, even in the games we’ve won it happens.”

After playing an even first quarter, the Suns’ bench unit once again faltered against the Celtics’ reserves, and as has been the case recently the starters didn’t exactly turn the tide in that second period after the bench’s subpar start.

Meanwhile, Jared Sullinger (12 points, 16 rebounds, game-high plus 24) and Jeff Green (14 points, a few monster dunks) combined with Jason Terry (13 points) to score more points than any Boston starter.

“It think it would have been a little easier to swallow if it had been Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett,” said Suns head coach Alvin Gentry. “But at the end of the day it was the bench that really hurt us the most.”

The Suns’ bench was poor enough tonight and has been enough times of late that Gentry tried to shelve the idea of a bench altogether in the second half.

After the starters exploded for the 17-0 run to put the Suns back up by three, Gentry decided to ride them rather than turn the game back over to the reserves. He ended up going with a seven-man rotation that included Shannon Brown and Markieff Morris, but played Goran Dragic and P.J. Tucker (who limited Paul Pierce to seven points on 3-for-10 shooting) the full 24 minutes and gave just 17:38 of playing time to the bench.

It’s almost a situation where Gentry has no good options. He clearly felt the best chance of winning this game involved not going back to the bench, yet in the end it could be argued that the Suns ran out of gas without any rest for most of those players after the big run. Of course, based on the bench’s performance in the first half, it’s not very likely that unit would have fared any better. It’s also not sustainable to ride the starters that hard, and it’s a bit crazy to think that Tucker would turn into an indispensable rotation player when he was originally seen (to me at least) as an afterthought of the summer.

Overall, the Suns were much better with the starters on the floor tonight, as in 26 minutes with such a lineup they outscored the Celts by 22.9 points per 100 possessions and held them to a 74.9 offensive rating (the six-minute scoreless stretch in the third may have boosted this just a bit), according to the NBA’s advanced stats tool. Phoenix was 13 points better in these 26 minutes, so that goes to show how bad they were when even one starter sat.

It could also be argued that the starters were tuckered out after the big run with no rest, as in the last quarter and a half once the spurt ended Phoenix scored just 21 points and shot 21.4 percent. That’s after scoring 17 points on 61.5 percent shooting in the first half of the third quarter.

In short, Gentry has tried just about everything, and yet his personnel makes it so he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Regardless of his decision it will probably be the wrong one, which makes this the opposite of 2010 when he couldn’t go wrong playing his starters or his reserves at any given time.

“Obviously it’s difficult to win on the road anyways in the NBA,” Gentry said. “But we’ve had numerous opportunities where if we did the right thing and executed the right way, we could have had a win or put ourselves in a position to win. We just got to do that, we’ve got to get better at it, and we’ve got to be able to complete plays and we’ve got to be able to come up with possessions by acquiring the rebound.

“But we’ve just got to, like I said to the guys, no one’s going to dig us out of this, we’ve got to dig ourselves out of this. And no one feels sorry for you in the NBA. So it’s got to be us with the execution, and us completing the plays, and us doing the right things.”

The loss dropped the Suns to 2-16 away from home, and their 11th straight road loss makes this the fourth-longest road losing streak in franchise history. They still have not won a second game of a back-to-back in eight tries.

Gentry can talk about execution and turnovers (16 tonight) and all that good stuff all night, but at the end of the day the Suns just aren’t talented enough to sustain stretches of quality basketball, and their good runs never seem to overshadow their inevitable ruts.

Until that changes, the Suns will likely continue to play more games like tonight where they make a few good runs but ultimately fall short.

And 1

Dragic told The Arizona Republic that some of his teammates “don’t care.” “We got three guys battling on the floor, and the rest of the guys aren’t on the same page,” he said. “It’s tough. Right now, we’re not together as a team.”

Michael Schwartz founded ValleyoftheSuns in October 2008 and is the owner/editor emeritus of the site. He is currently working toward his MBA in sports business at San Diego State University.

Facebook Twitter Google+ YouTube 

Tags: Boston Celtics · Phoenix Suns · Phoenix Suns Recap

80 responses so far ↓

  • 1 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 12:30 am

    Its gotta be getting frustrating for Gentry.

    His team is able to keep in games just enough to make it interesting.

    Dragic cant play 42 minutes a game all the time on back to backs on the road

    At some point we have to let Marshall play

    Its not like he has been setting the world on fire when he was in the D-League, but you picked him 13th in the draft, you might as well use him

    Sullinger had a great game for them, and has shown to be a quality pick for them

    Gortat had a good game with a buncha boards and blocks, but with the team in a catatonic offense, he needs to be given the ball more and get to the free throw line.

    I dont know if they just arent giving him the ball or if he is having problems establishing post position on guys

    Jared Dudley played great tonight

    The Suns went on a 17-0 run but it seemed to me like some of that was also Boston with terrible shot selection

    right now theres nothing else i want Gentry to try then to get Marshall some minutes

    because right now he is just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

    Next up is i think Chicago on Friday

    we gotta chance or same result as Boston?

  • 2 foreveris2long // Jan 10, 2013 at 12:31 am

    Someone please interview Babby the self proclaimed NBA draft smart guy who selected K. Marshall over Sullinger. That is what is so scary about the upcoming draft where we could have 2 lottery picks, Babby and his twin from a different mother, Blanks, will be doing the picking. Please somebody buy this team from Sarver. If the Kings are supposedly worth $500,000,000, then the Suns should also be in that neighborhood.

    The Suns have had two lottery picks in the last two years and neither Marshall or Morris will likely be everyday starters. In fact former Sun Earl Clark with the Lakers looked like a really good power forward for the Lakers tonight.

    Back to Marshall. He must really be a bust when the bench sucks and he still cannot get any time. His game just has too many holes in it which is why I begged the Suns not to draft the stiff.

  • 3 hawki // Jan 10, 2013 at 12:51 am

    The Hornets & the Cavs won & the Lakers lost….WOO-HOO.

    Oh yeah, the Suns…..not much left to say about them…the Front Office has a dart board with the top 10 college players names’ on it….the ? is who gets to throw the dart that determines Suns 1st pick….Babby, Blanks or Bobby ?

  • 4 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:07 am

    Marshall may not have a jumpshot, or play great D but he was drafted for his size, passing skills and intangibles.

    I think the Suns are still in “win now” mode and are too afraid to give marshall minutes.

    I mean its really hard to believe that he could be this much of a bust

    point guard is the hardest position to learn in the game, and the Suns are not in totally blow it up mode yet

    but there going to be there soon if the suns get to February and things are still the same.

    Speaking of the draft, my dream scenario would be getting a 2 guard and forward or center.

    i know i know the Suns have like 5 power forwards……but none of them have been able to be more than a quality role player.

    I dream for Nerlens Noel and Shabaaz Muhammad but its probably gonna be more like Marcus Smart and Isiah Austin

  • 5 Penny Hardaway // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:07 am

    Time to let Marshall get his minutes.

  • 6 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 2:01 am

    i just watched highlights of the Nuggets-Magic game

    Kenneth Faried 19 points 19 boards a couple steals and a block in a Nuggets win

    Morris is giving us 8 points and 4 boards a game in 20 minutes

    yet another productive player the Suns passed on

  • 7 Sillmarillion // Jan 10, 2013 at 2:20 am

    There should be a greater analytics part in this article imo. It’s well written and the quotes fit, but I would rather see someone getting deeper into the numbers of specific players.

    For example: everybody gets excited about Dragic. But did he really help the team that much? He is said to be a shoot-first PG. Okay. So he played nearly 42 minutes and still had fewer points than Scola who played 32 minutes.

    So maybe he let others shine? Nope, only 4 assists in 42 minutes. Scola had the same amount and Dudley had more and even Gortat, our center, had two.
    JD had a double-double, why does nobody mention it? Gortat had another double-double (which one was it already?) and no word about it. In the last few weeks Gortat was the best and most consistent Suns player.

    Let’s look at the FG%:
    Dragic …… 36%
    Dudley ….. 35%
    Scola …….. 43%
    Tucker ….. 33%
    Gortat …… 50%

    I will ignore Tucker, because we all know he shouldn’t be a starter on any NBA team. Dudley and Dragic are basically on the same level, but Dudley had 10 rebounds and a team-high 5 assists, meaninig he is able to contribute in other areas as well. Plus, he is a good guy and the team captain.

    Scola’s shooting was okay and Gortat was solid as usual. Why don’t you give the ball to them more often. They should be the go to guys, not Dragic who in my opinion is one of the worst players in the starting unit.
    Another thing: Gortat had 5 blocks which is huge (vs Bass and Garnett i.e.). No word about it. All I hear is Dragic and Dragic. Dragic had one single steal, Gortat had twice that much.

    I miss Steve so much :( He won’t win a ring with the Lakers (and I really hoped he would, he is such a great player and leader), he could have stayed with the Suns as well.

  • 8 Sillmarillion // Jan 10, 2013 at 2:25 am

    Sorry for the double post, but his post appeared after I wrote my first;
    you should ban Josef Mengele from this board, for his nick is highly offensive. Mengele was a first-class nazi doctor who tortured and experimented on living people in Auschwitz (I’m only explaining that to you, because I experienced that U.S. people have little knowledge about European history, no offense to you guys!).

  • 9 Dan Smith // Jan 10, 2013 at 2:44 am

    Screw Nash, he’s a Benedict…what’s happening in La la land now is called karma. Its what he gets for going to the team of our arch nemesis and jock riding Kobe…and the worst is he lied when he knew about the whole thing.

  • 10 Luka // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:12 am

    The offensive execution is just abysmal. Dragic needed to take over that game, and didn’t. I just don’t see the mechanics from him to be an elite PG. He doesn’t set enough quick screens. He also lacks the ability to create separation from his defender. You’ll never see Dragic.. set a quick screen, fake his defender left or right, pull up etc. At some point you have to wonder what you have with Marshall like everyone has said. Float Dragic at the 2. When Gentry played a small line-up earlier in the season with Telfair and Dragic to comeback vs Cleveland it worked well.

  • 11 Luka // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:26 am


    Excellent points man. Babby just loves the sound of his own voice. For him to actually proclaim the Suns draft selections “were spot on across the board” is a joke. Morris is Frye 2.0. He has no low post game, and doesn’t fight for rebounds.

    I’m more inclined to blame Blanks, and John Treloar for the draft miscues. Babby always claimed he needed a “basketball genius” to take advice from and Blanks is quite frankly a moron. He actually thought the Suns were “lucky” to snag Beasley.

    Treloar meanwhile has been a scout for 30 years but has absolutely zero NBA experience.

    I just hope the losing gets so bad Sarver throws in the white towel and leaves. Get a real owner here who knows WTF he’s doing.

  • 12 Rich Anthony, (KJL) // Jan 10, 2013 at 4:36 am

    I can’t ride with you guys who constantly ride the front office for every single thing to go wrong. Even I think that, in looking back, the Suns didn’t pick the best player they could have. At picks 13 – 19 it’s luck anyway.

    Morris was picked because he brought the most of what was required to the table in regards to playing on the court with Steve Nash. These other guys you keep comparing him to would not have worked with Nash at all. Why would they have selected them?

    Marshall was picked to be developed. They weren’t trying to save the franchise with him. That was never an option. Also, could they be 100% certain that Dragon would come back?

    Stop crying over the way the season has unfolded as if things could have been any different. If Nash were still here we would be fighting for the 8-11th seed out west and stuck with yet another mid-level draft pick and a bunch of stupid filler contracts with no hope on the horizon.

    This, ladies and gentlemen, is what is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN when a franchise finally pulls the pin and calls for the rebuild.

    It’s not like Phoenix is the doormat of the league. They are competitive in almost every game. The silver lining is that the team we support loses games in part because the starting talent simply can’t play every minute of every game and the bench unit isn’t very good.

    It wasn’t going to be very good this year. It’s made up of players who are on short contracts and cheap cast-away types from other teams while a future is constructed.

    Sure Gentry is irritated. He’s irritated because he can see that the core of the team isn’t bad, but in order to win games he needs a few things and he simply doesn’t have them. That’s a good sign because he hasn’t quit. He refuses to quit, but he can’t make it work with what he has. He’s proud. He wants to win games that are close.

    He’s proving his worth, though. His talented players go out there to butcher and kill their opposition and they do it until they exhaust themselves. You can’t ask anything else of them.

    Hopefully Gentry remains and gets to work with some of the new talent that will come in after this down season. It’s clear that his system would work with players he can instruct without worry of having to play to such a specific style like the one employed with Nash, post-Amare.

    Again,if you want to say they’ve botched the Morris and Marshal picks you can. I have. I understand the picks though and I understand why both were picked. Lets not forget how many years it took Nash to explode and become STEVE NASH. If Marshal remains and puts in the work he could be what that bench unit needs once it has real players coming off of it.

    Morris is still growing and who knew PHX would win the Scola amnesty sweepstakes.

    it’s a REBUILD people. It’s not like we were supposed to challenge for the crown this season.

    A lot of you who are crying now are the same ones who wanted Nash to stay even though the team had no hopes of even being a playoff team let alone having the money to attract star talent that wasn’t out there anyway.

    Enough bitching. The franchise is finally doing the right thing by rebuilding. They should have done this when Amare left but it’s here now so I’m happy.

    As it stands, we have picks, quality players, (just not enough of them), and a record quickly earning us a high high draft pick or two.

    I’m not even frustrated. I watch these games. Three things jump out at me.

    Gentry hasn’t lost the locker room. They go out there in straight attack mode every night, until they get tired and fade.

    The reserves, as expected, are absolutely terrible, but at least most of them will be easily replaced come draft night / free agency.

    Dragon can be that guy at the point position who attacks. The more weapons he has the more lethal he will be. Where would Rondo be right now without Pierce / KG / Allen to pass the ball to as he came up?

    You guys can keep complaining. I’ll continue to monitor the rebuild.

  • 13 Alessandro // Jan 10, 2013 at 4:43 am

    Sarver please go away! I met him in Rome and he promised me to challenge for a championship…the result? Joe Johnson Stoudamire Diaw Nash Richardson out and Turkoglu Childress Beasley Wes Johnson in…
    Greetings from Sicily

  • 14 SHAZAM // Jan 10, 2013 at 5:42 am

    @ rich..i agree with you..this is an interesting missive though ..your quote—>”Enough bitching. The franchise is finally doing the right thing by rebuilding. They should have done this when Amare left but it’s here now so I’m happy.”…i guess we could parse words but doesnt this part seem like a contradiction? maybe even may i dare say it “bitching” think about it..this part —>”finally doing the right thing by rebuilding. They should have done this when Amare left”…again i agree with your sentiments and have echoed them as happy this year for losses is the mantra but you sort of bitched at people for bitching while you also bitched..what type of person would do that? a bitch?..certainly we are in agreement but would choose different words to explain it..i guess..any ways im just goofing on you so dont go too sideways

  • 15 Michael // Jan 10, 2013 at 6:07 am

    @Rich: Good words.

    I just hope the FO thinks the same and doesn’t ruin the rebuilding when it just started by jumping on the Gay-train.
    The Suns would be lost in nowhere land for years with his contract.
    As some of you have stated already: it’s fun watching an entertaining and successful Suns team, it’s totally boring watching a team in the fight for 8th to 11th, it’s at least interesting watching a team losing but having a plan and potential (cap space, draft picks) moving forward.
    What has been the future outlook for the last couple of seasons? Aging stars, no cap flexibility, low picks… That has been a lot more frustrating to me than the situation we are in today. We can at least discuss about the way the franchise should go, because there are many opportunities out there. You just have to hope they do the right decisions.

  • 16 Luka // Jan 10, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Draft Shabazz, and Glenn Robinson III. Sign Millsap to a contract.

  • 17 Harry // Jan 10, 2013 at 7:30 am

    Rich Anthony,

    You couldn’t be any more wrong. This is NOT what happens with a good rebuild. It’s not even close. You’re confusing losing with rebuilding. Rebuilding should have a design, a purpose. What happens with a good rebuild is what is happening in Orlando. New blood in the FO and coach that move forward with a PLAN. Play based on that plan.

    Here’s what has happened with Phoenix “plan” this year. No new coach but Gentry puts in a new offense in the final year of his contract even though Dragic ran the same offense (essentially) in Houston. Go totally away from the PNR and instead design an offense that passes the ball around the perimeter and yields 16-23 foot shots. The Suns shoot the second most in the league yet still don’t take many three’s. Strike one. Next, proclaim that Michael Beasley is going to lead. 20 games in and it’s stike two. Strike three? Take your pick. Never play Marshall, continue to play the worst defense in the league, let Brown continue to gun, etc. etc. etc.

    What you call bitching is nothing more than a clear observation that this team is without direction. A lawyer as the GM and a lifetime loser for a coach. Babby has had way too much time already and Gentry will never be the answer.

    Bring in new blood, NOW. Fire Gentry after this road trip. Don’t fire Babby and Blanks until later but take away all power immediately. End any notion of trades until you have a vision. They’re figureheads until you figure out the direction. Go out and hire Kelvin Sampson now. Greg Popovich loves him, he did a good job filling in at Houston and Morey hired him. That’s good enough for me. Allow Sampson to put in place his system now to get ready for next year. Basically this will allow the team to tank but still work for the future. Work with him to establish a long-term direction. Extract what he knows about the Houston system and build on it.

    Mr. Sarver, please do not allow this management team to do any more damage. Get them out and move on.

  • 18 john // Jan 10, 2013 at 8:09 am


    Right on. It boggles my mind that any Suns fan thought it could have gone differently as Nash/Amar’e moved on and aged.

    No NBA franchise is ALWAYS good, and I think every reasonable Suns fan could have seen that no successful run lasts past the primes of the star players involved.

    The Suns will see better days again. And soon, if the franchise history is any indication.

  • 19 DBreezy // Jan 10, 2013 at 8:24 am

    This isn’t where I parked my car….

  • 20 Cody // Jan 10, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Again I’m going to defend Dragic, I watch every game and like I said he should be averaging a lot more assists but his teammates need to make their shots, not to say he doesn’t miss a few passes, but for the most part he does pretty good, he also makes a lot of plays that free up the man on the second pass, in hockey he would be credited with an assist, and I wish Dragic would be more selfish and take closer to 15 shots per game, there were 2 plays where Dragic didn’t get credited with the assist either in the boston game where I know he should have, that would have put his total at 6 and guys that only look at stats wouldn’t say anything. Not to say I don’t think he should average more cause I do but passing to shooters who can’t shoot won’t get you an assist, and I also feel like Dragic and Scola don’t get a lot of respect from officials because I see a lot of fouls that should get those 2 to the line, and lastly, I think this starting line up plays very well together, but they can’t stay on the floor all 48 minutes. Seems like every time the starters get a good lead the reserves give it up and put the starters in a big whole to have the starters try and dig us out of.

  • 21 john // Jan 10, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Yeah, the Dragic hate is obviously misguided. Not every point guard needs to play the game like Steve Nash in order to be successful, and I think the types of fans who are ripping on Dragic are the types of fans who wanted to see Nash play forever.

    Personally, I think Dragic’s all-around game is a small amount of polish away from making him a 20+ PER player who can average 18/7/4 with 2 steals per game and a WS/48 approaching 0.200. At Dragic’s salary level, that would be a steal. At the rate Dragic is currently producing, he is most certainly fairly paid.

    The man is playing admirably this season, and he’s the lone bright spot I can see on this roster.

  • 22 Sillmarillion // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Dragic is an average player, but he is not the best man on this roster. Gortat and Scola are.
    And why on earth should he have 15 shots per game? His FG% is awful and he cant shoots 3s.
    And what about these dumb arguments that he would have more assists if it wasn’t for the Suns poor shooting. Nash got +10 assists every game and also had Gortat and Dudley in the starting lineup. And Scola is a reliable shooter as well. As PG it is HIS JOB to create easy opportunities for his teammates. Nash and Gortat were doing tne PnR thing ad nauseam which gave them assists/points. But as it seems Dragic is unable to make this play.

  • 23 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:10 am

    I dont agree with the stop bitching aspet at all

    The Fans know this team is a disaster, and ownership comes in here and goes “this is a playoff team, i will do everything i can do make sure we challenge for one by making trades and using picks”

    Ownership and management is overly optomistic and seems willing to try and shortcut rebuilding by trading for marginal tier 2 stars or something along those lines.

    Most fans know the team is in ruins,just look at US Airways Center.

    I think i can complain all i want when we consistently swign and miss on free agent signings and draft picks and we are 2-16 on the road and sarver goes its still early and this is a playoff team

    ownership needs to take the rose tinted glasses off

    this team is the way it is because we didnt rebuild 3 years ago when stoudemire left, we have really ignored the draft, then not developed the guys we drafted in a desperate, highy illogical “win now” attitude

    You dont win a title being the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs every year

    most fans dont want a team stuck in mediocrity

    having the team be bad for a few years may be painful, but its way worse to never get anywhere and accomplish the big goal because your too stuborn to admit you picked the wrong players and signed the wrong free agents

    I think any sports fan would say “WTF”

    when they can see the product on the court is a joke and onwership says “dont worry fans this is a playoff team”

    every owner wants winning and sell outs every home game right?

    well the only other way to rebuild other than thru the draft is to sign free agents, make trades, and pay alot of money.

    Thats the way the NBA works. Teams that pay the luxury tax and spend the most money usually win titles

    Now of course sometimes it doesnt work out

    look at the Lakers right now, or the Knicks a few years ago with a terrible record and the NBA highest payroll

    To be competitive you gotta spend the money or have an amazing scouting department that can take players other teams dont want and turn them into rotation guys or maybe even stars on your team

    Thats what small market teams have to do and thats what the Suns need to do as well, saving their money for a guy who will take them from 7-th or 8th seed playoff team to ttitle contender

  • 24 Harry // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:17 am

    It appears Gentry has lost this team. Here’s what Dragic had to say after the game last night. We got three guys battling on the floor, and the rest of the guys aren’t on the same page,” Dragic said. “It’s tough. Right now, we’re not together as a team.”

    I’ll say it again. Fire Gentry. Move on to a new coach. Let the healing begin.

  • 25 Sillmarillion // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:26 am

    This statement of Dragic is far worse than anything Gortat ever said. And still, I don’t see anyone making a big deal about it. Man, you gotta love Dragic really much!

  • 26 Forever is2long // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Thanks Luka. Blanks IMO definitely gets a lot of the blame. I do not think he has a clue what he is doing. Rich I know you think lottery picks near the end of the lottery are guesses but I respectfully disagree. Nash and Kobe Bryant and many others were selected there along with other future Hall of Famers (selected 13 or later). Generally speaking when you draft someone in the lottery they should have more upside than down side. Marshall has slow foot speed, seldom penetrates, bad defender and cannot shoot. His lone attribute is he can pass. The problem is in the NBA they are not going to guard you if you cannot shoot so the defense can easily double someone else or simply play the passing lanes, creating a mess for the other Suns on the floor. Just because a team rebuilds does not excuse it or render it immune from what I think are dumb draft choices. Even if Dragic was not foreseeable there were other point guards available who I think have a better upside than Marshall.

    As for Morris I think he is undersized and not overly athletic which reflects why he has trouble guarding the low post. It also explains why he does not have an effective low post game. Again I go back to my point when you draft someone in the lottery I think it should be for the person’s upside not a team’s perceived need. Neither Morris or Marshall have that upside potential in my opinion.

    I am all for the rebuild, in fact I wanted the Suns to trade Gortat for a top ten selection in last year’s draft which probably would have been a good move since he refuses to sign an extension with the Suns. I would have kept Lopez who was cheaper, younger and having a decent year in New Orleans. This would have accelerated the rebuild.

    As for Dragic Gang, I too thought he would average around 8 assists a game but I also thought the Suns would be better shooters. Our poor shooting has to be a factor in Dragic only averaging about 6.5 assists a game. He is not great but very serviceable because he can defend and shoot. I just do not think he is the problem.

    Anyway fun chatting with everyone as there are some entertaining thoughts on the board. I just hope we get a lottery pick from the Lakers for a 39 year old point guard. That will prove to be one of the great trades of all time (more blind luck than anything) if we hire someone to help in the draft room this summer.

  • 27 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:40 am

    So for all the people that think Dragic isnt any good and its his fault we arent winning……….

    Who else could the suns realistically trade him for that would be any better?

    enlighten me, cause 14 points 6 assists 3 boards and 2 steals a game is pretty good for the money we are giving him

    what team is going to give us a PG thats better than that ?

    you could package some deal together were we give Gortat, Dragic, and Dudley to Denver for Ty Lawson, Javale Mcgee and Corey Brewer.

    Thats the only deal i can think of where we could possibly win in a trade like that

  • 28 Cody // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:57 am

    I get what you’re saying but what I’m saying is there’s plenty of times Dragic has a better shot yet he passes to another open player who then proceeds to botch the shot, but what you don’t see are the plays he does make like giving Scola the ball in the high post when he drives in which make the D scramble leaving Gortat open underneath, now Scola gets that assist but that play is set up from the penetration Dragic creates. What I’m saying is there is nothing wrong with our starters and how they continue to give the team leads, it’s when the bench comes in and gives that lead up and leaves us in a hole, watch the games and watch how the starters play together, not to say he shouldn’t pass to Gortat more on the pnr they run but he does pass to Scola who pops out and has either a wide open shot or has a good angle to pass to Gortat, it’s not getting Dragic the assist when Scola makes that pass but it’s the right play, you can’t bring up stats if you don’t watch the games and see the little plays that are made. Then to saying he has a low shouting% I agree his 3′s are pretty inconsistent, but he is normally a good 3 point shooter, but the team just lacks confidence right now as a whole and lacks the talent that other teams have, but these starters I feel do compete. Yes Nash was the better playmaker and better player than the 2 by a long shot but Dragic is his own player and he is not a selfish player like he is made out to be on this site, don’t think any of these starters are, I do wish we had a better 2 guard so we could bring Tucker off the bench to pester the teams best offensive player. This team needs a true go to wrong player, some young talent and I agree Marshall needs some floor time but I just don’t think Dragic should be bashed or should any of these guys (except for maybe 3 I can think of)

  • 29 Rebel 2 // Jan 10, 2013 at 11:02 am

    I have great respect for coach Gentry, if it wasn’t for him, I don’t think this team would have won 5 games of the 9 they have won, but going back and forth on his decisions to bench Beasley seems troublesome. It appears as if now, finally, all options have been exhausted. Trying Johnson at the 3 was worth a shot, but he didn’t stick with it and went back to Beasley in the last game. With this type of rotation problems, there is for sure no time for player development, which is the main thing that should be happening on the floor. Forget about winning games, play to forge players. To make them confident in their abilities. There is no playoffs at the end of this tunnel, so forget about it.

  • 30 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 11:45 am

    I agree with Rebel2

    not developing talent would sadly just make the rebuild process longer

  • 31 Tony // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    @Dan Smith,

    I hope you realize what a despicable Suns fan that you are. You call Nash a Benedict for leaving the Suns when the truly disloyal Suns were the Three Stooges, Bobby, Blanks, and Babby. They are the ones who didn’t even offer him an extension and if you want to call someone a liar, you could properly call Lon Babby the liar for repeatedly describing Nash as the “Sun, Moon, and Stars” of the franchise and follow that characertization with not even offering him an extension just a few months later.

    It really is amazing to me why Suns fans are so apt to place the blame with the players instead of the management. I truly do not understand the appeal with having more trust in Sarver, Babby, and Blanks, especially since the three of them have been nothing but a disaster for this franchise.

    As far as Rich is concerned, take 90% of what he said and just ignore it because he doesn’t have any idea of what he’s talking about. We as Suns fans deserve a franchise that we can be proud of and we have not only every right to call out the Suns front office when they screw up, but it’s also our duty to do so. Should we sit here and pretend we are satisified that the Suns, the fourth winningest NBA franchise has become the laughing stock of the NBA? Should we remain silent when we see the front office make stupid decision after stupid decision? Should we be proud of a front office that has consistently given away star players and replaced them with role players, all the while not reducing ticket prices to games until the point when fans just stopped showing up?


    you are absolutely spot on, although I disagree with your analysis of the job Gentry has done. What people such as Rich ignore is that the front office designed this team to be a competitive team while transitioning. This was not supposed to be a 4th or 5th worst team in the NBA, and bringing in players such as Scola and O’Neal are proof of this. If this team was truly supposed to be rebuilding, then it’s basketball 101 that you give the majority of playing time to the younger players, not the veteran players with no upside. You don’t trade away a younger center with more upside and keep a 28-year old center who is already in his prime and has probably reached his full potential.

    This roster was just thrown together without any concern about how the players might fit with each other and the type of system they want instilled. For instance, it didn’t take a basketball savant to recognize that Dragic is not a good fit with this roster because he’s not a pass-first pg. He looks to score first and pass second. This is a problem with this roster because outside of him, no one else can consistently create their own shots. Moreover, it was readily apparent that Gortat is best utilized on the offensive-end with pick and rolls, yet they bring in a pg who who’s first priority of a pick is to look to score. Thus, it didn’t take a genius to know that the Suns would have trouble being effective running one of the most basic plays in basketball.

    Additonally, another example of the front office just throwing players together without any plan was acquiring other players with a score-first mentality such as Beasley, Brown, and Johnson. So, between Dragic, Brown, Telfair, Beasley, and Johnson, almost half the roster consists of one-dimensional offensive players, all of whom happen to also not be very good at this one area.

    In sum, the FO built what they expected would be a playoff team and they marketed it as such to Suns fans. Although every national NBA pundit, and some Suns fans with even a modicum of basketball IQ knew this roster would lead to nothing but a disasterous season for the Suns, the Suns FO should be accountable for how poorly the season has turned out to be for the Suns and the fact that they still are yet to acquire a young player they can build around.

    Let me be clear, Dragic is currently not a franchise player, and it is extremely unlikely he ever becomes one. He’s not a very good passer, and relies far too much on his speed and athleticism. His problem is similar to Gortat’s in that because both rely so much on their speed and athleticism, both are unlikely to have long careers in the NBA. As most know, one of the first things aging takes away is in fact speed and athleticism. That’s why it’s imperative for players who do rely on those qualities to develop their skill to such a degree that they can compensate for losing athleticism. Neither Dragic nor Gortat are very-skilled players and as such, it makes it difficult to rebuild around Dragic because he’s already 27 and in his prime.

  • 32 Tony // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:09 pm


    My biggest problem with Dragic is not that he’s a poor playmaker for others, but rather his inability to lead this team. For a pg to be successful, he has to be a leader on the court and his teammates have to trust him. When things start to go poorly and the Suns begin to struggle, I often see Dragic yelling at his teammates or sulking in some other manner. He doesn’t encourage his teammates, nor does he try to make them better players. As a consequence of his demeanor, he doesn’t instill trust from his teammates.

    In sum, what I see with Dragic is a selfish player, who is more concerned with his individual statistics, which are not that good anyway, rather than how well his teammates are playing.

  • 33 john // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Yawn. More of the same from Tony. Do you ever talk basketball, or is always about your crush on the “Three Stooges?” You seem to need a hug or something. Bake yourself some cookies. Cookies always make me happier.

  • 34 john // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Ah, now some psychology on Dragic from Tony. At least it’s not about Sarver. Fantastic, this might actually lead to a productive conversation.

    I think your assessment of Dragic’s leadership qualities are a bit unfair. Assuming that a leader must encourage teammates is too large of a leap for me. I read an article a while back (I believe it was from Simmons) on Bill Russell and his leadership traits.

    Russell was very much a quiet leader, who would never chide a teammate, but also wasn’t overly expressive with encouragement. He studied his teammates, learned their weaknesses, and adjusted his game to cover the flaws of each of his teammates. He did a lot of this without communicating it, too. That’s just who he was. A quiet, intelligent, humble man who kept to himself in many regards.

    Magic was the type of leader I feel like you’re describing most closely. Magic was bubbly, charismatic, lovable, and encouraging. Magic oozed fun.

    Jordan was a ruthless tyrant who would drive his teammates with fear. If you got in the way of Jordan and his pursuit of perfection, you would wish you had never been born. That was the incentive for members of Bulls to play well. Don’t make Jordan mad, because Jordan would do everything in his power to make your life miserable if you crossed him (and chances are he would succeed).

    There are other forms of leadership, as well, but I won’t really get into it too much deeper than simply to say that limiting the definition of “effective” leadership to one form is a bit restrictive. All three of the men I mentioned above had vastly different forms of leadership, and I would say that each one of them demonstrated that they were remarkable leaders based on their success.

    Saying Dragic isn’t a good leader just because he yells at guys when they make mistakes is too limited. It might be true that Dragic isn’t a good leader, but it’s not such a simple picture as the one you’ve painted.

  • 35 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    Dragic played very well for Houston 18 points 8 assists and 4 boards and 2 steals are very good numbers

    it is very easy to blame Dragic but who does he have the ball to pass to that can actually finish a play?

    No one on this team finishes at the rim or gets to the free throw line

    Without a great bigman to command a double team that means you are left to creating your own shot

    How is it Dragics fault if he is the only player that is on the court consistently that can create his own shot.

    besides, it gets frustrating when you drive the lane to draw defense,pass it to someone, getting someone a wide open shot and its a brick.

    On top of that, none of our decent offensive players play any Defense

    I dont really understand why they built the team the way they did

    after stoudemire left we went and signed or traded for Warrick, Childress and Turkoglu they all played the same position and it was a disaster

    Then we go and get Scola when we already had morris and Fye? Granted Frye became injured for the year but that was in training camp

    Plus you go and get Beasley and play him out of position as a Small Forward. That didnt work so you try him at power forward again, his real true position

    So basically your 5 deep at the PF spot and the only other guy than Dragic that can create his own shot doesnt play or plays little D your getting a net loss


  • 36 DBreezy // Jan 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm


    They need to hire someone to help in he draft room now, not this summer. Anyone who comes in later will likely be heavily dependent on the work that Blanks/Treloar have done evaluating guys along with individual workouts.

    Those workouts can be good, but often are misleading when prospects have a bad day for a variety of reasons. Also, if recent drafts are an indicator, I expect to see a lot of chicanery from the agents representing the top picks. There isn’t a clear cut #1 yet and I expect several of these guys agents to refuse to have their guys do anything at the combine or do individual workouts in an attempt to keep their players’ perceived value high. Iow you better have done your homework early.

    One of the most interesting aspects of this potential Rudy Gay trade to me is what it could say about the future of Babby and Blanks. If you’re Sarver, giving up those assets and taking on that salary for someone who isn’t a slam dunk of a fit has to represent a level of comfort with their evaluation skills. That frightens me.

  • 37 Cody // Jan 10, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Thank you to those who agree with me on Dragic, I don’t think he’s a franchise player but I do believe he can definitely be a starter on a good playoff team, but I do not think to be a leader you have to coddle your teammates, just because someone yells doesn’t mean he has no leadership. This team has struggled, every player on the team has struggled say one point or another, it’s gonna be a hard year for the players and for the fans, hopefully there is a good plan going forward.

  • 38 Voqar // Jan 10, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    I came close to turning off the TV several times as the suns simply handed the ball to celtics players repeatedly.

    It’s one thing to be out played. To repeatedly not be paying attention or taking care of the ball and just hand it over is pathetic.

    Someone needs to tell our players we don’t get assists for passing to the other team.

  • 39 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    Lets just say the Suns made a big trade to try and make the playoffs

    in a normal year, a 46-36 record gets you the 8th seed in the playoffs

    The Suns would have to go 34 wins and 11 losses the rest of the season just to get the 8th seed

    That assunes they turn it around tomorrow night ar Brooklyn.

    I dont think thats gonna happen

  • 40 Ty-Sun // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    All I’ll say about Dragic “yelling” at other players is that you need to know WHAT he is yelling before passing judgment. If he’s berating other players for bad plays, not good. But he could just as well be yelling encouraging things or just directing other players. If you don’t actually hear the words you just never know.

  • 41 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    I forgot to mention

    the year we had Shaq for a full season we finished 46-36 and missed the playoffs

    We then traded Shaq to Cleveland for Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic

    None of them ever put on a Suns uniform

    Pavlovic is still in the NBA and is a 10th guy role player

    Wallace played a few more productive years with Detroit

    How come every player we dump we never get anything for in return?

  • 42 Robert Sarver // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Hey fans!

    I understand all the frustration, and believe me I am quite frustrated as well. I instructed Lon and Lance to build a playoff team this year after missing the playoffs the last 2 years, and I am quite disappointed it has not worked out that way.

    But let me be quite clear in saying I am instructing Lon and Lance to make us a playoff team NOW. Not later, not some rebuilding, but NOW.

    We have many assets, notably the picks, to make us into a playoff team, and I am sick of the loses as I know you are too.

    DO not worry, I am on your side, and I am working towards bringing pieces that will help make this team into a playoff team now, not in the future, but now.

    Stay with us, the ship is not sinking, and I will turn this ship around with Lon and Lance.

    Thank you, all the best, and see you at the US Airways Center!

    All For Orng!


  • 43 Penny Hardaway // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    Damn I miss Nash

  • 44 Chris Hansen // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Hey Robert!

    Nice to hear from you, would you be interested in $550m from me and Steve Ballmer and the Nordstroms? I understand you’ve been undergoing some monetary issues recently, and I see that your games in Phoenix aren’t really well attended, would you be interested in selling the team to me?

    I have a good plan for this franchise, including moving it up to Seattle where the arena will be packed unlike in Phoenix.

    Let me know Robert, I am quite interested in this proud franchise provided the Kings deal falls off.

    Thank you Robert,


  • 45 Manny Napuaio // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Anyone else think Sarver lets Lon and Lance back?

    Well actually Lon doesn’t seem bad as he is not the talent evaluator, but ayone else worried Lance (and Trolear) are back?

  • 46 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    I dont know any Suns player or employee or owner personally

    I am just a Suns fan who listens to games and loves Suns Basketball

    Unless Sarver has a Ninja Squad that can turn role players, picks, and some cap space into a team that will go to the western conference finals THIS YEAR

    (yeah being an 8th seed in the brutal west is not good enough)

    i dont know how that is gonna happen

    i dont know what specifically he is doing to help this team get there, but it better be pretty damn amazing if he is sacrificing what is likely future lotto picks and a beloved player like Dudley.

    Now i understand the logic, if we are making the playoffs and playing well, those picks would be late 1st round

    But you need more than just one guy, and you really need 3, probably expensive veterans to get anywhere near the WCF

  • 47 Chris Hansen // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Oh and hey Robert,

    I know a lot of Suns fans are wanting you to sell the team, why not to me ;)

    All the best,


  • 48 john // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Nobody appreciates a person who uses the names of infamous Nazis as their internet identity. Why bother posting when you already know the following?

    1. You’re a classless fool.
    2. No one will care what you say.

  • 49 cdubbb // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Shannon Brown needs to ride pine

  • 50 Vidic // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Free Kendall Marshall.

    Makes us UNC fans sick he had to get drafted by a franchise that doesn’t even want to use him,e specially over a mediocre point guard like Dragic.

    The man who Rose dunked over starting over the best NCAA passer in quite soem time?

    Child please

  • 51 john // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:46 pm


    If Marshall had one ounce of scoring ability in his body at this time, he’d be playing I’m sure.

    Also, calling him “the best NCAA passer in quite some [sic] time” and your admission of UNC fandom make it pretty clear you can’t exactly be objective on the matter.

    I’d like to see the kid get a shot, too, but most definitely not AHEAD of Dragic. Maybe alongside, but definitely not ahead.

  • 52 Lance Blanks // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    If me and John think Kendall was the pick, then he is the pick.

    Not like you “genuises” know how to run a basketball team and scout.


  • 53 Filipino Flash // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Look, there has to be some objectivity regarding this team.

    We see the starters (Dragic-Dudley-Tucker-Scola-Gortat) have played well in spurts, and I’d say all those guys are keepable pieces in the future.

    Whether or not the Suns keep all of them remains to be seen, I for one still wants to see the Suns entertain a Scola trade as the Suns could get quite a bit from him, and perhaps also a Gortat trade. But only if any of those two could net the Suns good young talent.

    I am hoping that the SUns can have good luck in this draft, having a top-5 (their own pick) and a lottery pick in the Lakers. By having a top-5 pick, the Suns can pick a guy like Archie Goodwin, who I see as a star in the NBA, and with the Lakers lottery pick, the Suns could possibly pick either Glenn Robinson or Otto Porter or Tony Mitchell or Miles Plumlee to solidify the 3/4.

    Dragic, Goodwin, Dudley, Tucker, possibly Gortat, a forward is a solid core to build around, and they’d have nice cap space for more pieces.

    As unwatachable this team may be now, there is hope…as long as Babby and particlarly Blanks/Treloar don’t emss this up.

    Just gotta be patient

  • 54 Filipino Flash // Jan 10, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Or imagine if the Suns can manage to get Lamb from OKC in a Gortat trade, the Suns could focus their lottery picks on the 3/4/5 spots.

  • 55 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    That kinda comment is not gonna win Blanks many allies with the fanbase.

    If Blanks and Trelor said he was the pick and he was, fine.

    But what is the future plan with him?

    surely you drafted him to be a guy who could help us

    If we move Telfair and put Marshall in and he does well backing up dragic, then i would be happy.

    I just want to see respectable production out of lottery picks, thats all

  • 56 Keith // Jan 10, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    Fire Gentry, start playing Marshall, and tank, tank, tank. Get rid of Beasley with stretch provision at end of year.
    Get a new FO in place before the draft so we can make 2 good lottery picks. Brown, Jo, Scola should be gone at end of year. Go strong with youth movement and rebuilding.

  • 57 Scott // Jan 10, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    So … at what point do the Suns say, “We’re not making it to the playoffs, so how about developing our young talent?”

    Would that turn off fans?

    I did not mind watching the Suns after they traded Marbury, because I liked watching the younger players develop. I’d like to see these guys develop, too.

    So how about starting the game with the best players, and sub in individual 2nd unit players (O’Neal, Morris, Brown, and Telfair) for a few minutes to provide each starter with rest until the game looks lost. Which, most of the time, should be about midway through the 4th. Then put in the 3rd unit.

    I’d like to see Marshall (who is the worst player on the team, if you go by PER), Garrett, Johnson, Beasley, and Zeller all take the court together. It can’t be much worse than watching the 2nd unit play, can it? :)

    (FWIW, Garrett is off to the D-League to play for a bit, either so the Suns can assess his progress versus Marshall, or to see if he can play at SG.)

  • 58 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    I hope Marshall gets more minutes and i hope Garrett does well in the D-League

  • 59 Geminid670 // Jan 10, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    I heard Dragic called out the rest of the team by saying there were only three players on the court fighting and the rest of the team doesn’t care.

    It appears that Babby and the front office failed to consider the inevitable human emotion that would overtake their ‘patience’ plan; competitive athletes can only weather so much losing before the whole thing implodes and mutiny begins.

    Chicago will be a watershed moment in this agonizing season, mark my words.

  • 60 azbballfan // Jan 10, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    Dragic has already been a part of a competitive team

    he was one of the many reasons we swept the spurs the last time we made the playoffs

    i would call almost single handedly beating the spurs in game 3 on the road and almost getting Houston to the playoffs last year a key part of a competitive team

    i like Vazquez as well he is doing very well this season good for him

  • 61 Geminid670 // Jan 10, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Dragic probably wishes he would have stayed in Houston at this point.

    Suns should have held on to him the first time around and let him absorb more under Nash.

    Whomever stepped in after Nash was going to struggle in comparison.

  • 62 Kevin Towers // Jan 10, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    Thank goodness for Lon Babby and Lance Blanks, no one in Phoenix is paying attention to the bang up job i’m doing with the Diamondbacks!!


  • 63 Vidic // Jan 10, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Dragic fans have no idea what a pass first true point guard is.

    That”s what Kendall is.




  • 64 Geminid670 // Jan 10, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    And then Beasley says ‘I don’t know what’s in that man’s head’ (meaning Gentry).

    Hey Michael, Gentry’s head says you’re f**king useless.

  • 65 Penny Hardaway // Jan 10, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    free Marshall!

  • 66 john // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    How did Marshall do in the D League? I forgot. Do you Marshall lovers know?

  • 67 Tony // Jan 10, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    I don’t mind the pro-Sarver contingent on VOTS, but the really pathetic ones, such as JOHN, who’s ignorance is eclipsed only by his condescending drivel of useless comments, are a big part of why this Suns franchise has gone so far off-track. Oh, and John, nobody appreciates your arrogant comments, especially when your tactic for rebuttal is based on character attacks. So, why don’t you go back to your bff Sarver and give him a hug, because you are one of his last remaining supporters! Or just refrain from posting on VOTS until you actually learn something about basketball and are able to form a cognizant post using facts instead of character-attacks.

    As far as Dragic’s leadership is concerned, he hasn’t earned the right to scream and yell at his teammates or otherwise demonstrate anything but encouragement towards them. The fact that John actually compares Dragic to Jordan just shows how clueless he is. Unlike Dragic, Jordan earned his respect and trust. His teammates didn’t follow his lead because he yelled at them, they followed his lead because they respected his competitive desire to win and the fact that he achieved the highest level of success in the NBA.

    In contrast, Dragic has achieved very little in terms of success at the NBA level and he’s not even a very good player. In fact, there’s not one aspect of his game that he excels in. He’s a score-first pg who’s fg% is only 45%. He’s not a good passer, nor very good at creating for his teammates. And, his individual defense is vastly overrated. Most of the time he gets destroyed by talented opposing pgs. Until Dragic earns the respect and trust from his teammates, which he can only obtain by proving his own superior value, Dragic has no business yelling at his teammates when they make mistakes.


    come on, you have to do better than that. You really believe Dragic is yelling words of encouragement?? I mean come on, it doesn’t take a lip-reader to recognize, based on the situation in which Dragic yells and the body language of his teammate as he does so, that he is absolutely not encouraging his teammates but rather berating them.

  • 68 Tony // Jan 10, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    For the dummies, i.e., John, here’s an example of your second bff’s leadership qualities…., or should I say lack thereof. Following yesterday’s loss to the Celtics, Paul Coro reported that Dragic said some of his teammates “don’t care” and followed that gem with this remark, “We got three guys battling on the floor, and the rest of the guys aren’t on the same page.” Now tell me, is it really a sign of being a leader by throwing your teammates under the bus???? Dragic must have had some great game to make those comments….Oops, he had only 12 points on 4-11 shooting and a paltry 4 assists, with 2 TOs. How does your starting pg, playing 41 minutes no less, only get 4 assists?! That’s really pathetic.

  • 69 Tony // Jan 10, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    Greivis Vasquez is a far superior pg than Dragic. This Suns team would be far better if he was the starting pg instead of Dragic. The guy’ averaging 14.1ppg, 9.1 apg, and 4.5 rpg. The fact that he’s averaging over 9 assists per game while playing for the Hornets, without Gordon nonetheless, goes to show what a player who is able to create for his teammates can do despite not playing with less-talented players around him.

  • 70 Polish_fan // Jan 10, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    well… You can compare what Nash-alike guys are doing – passing and feeding his teammies.
    You’ve got also secod group of PGs like CP3 or Rondo(with worse shot than CP but great penetrations) who are passers but also shooters 2 in 1. Dragic is trying to be that kind of player. But….he has not that speed, he is much worse in decision making pass-shoot. He has no selection but his thought is to shoot. So he should decide if he’ll play as pg and will set up his teammates or to shoot and then he should replace Dudley in the line up (as he has just a few assist almost the same amount like Gortat and less than Scola:-) )

  • 71 Sillmarillion // Jan 11, 2013 at 3:15 am

    PLEASE ban people who are using nicks like Josef Mengele or Hermann Goering as they refer to famous NAZIS and are HIGHLY offenive! If you don’t know these people google ‘em up and you’ll find my words confirmed.
    It really, really makes this site look bad if you open the comments sections and see nicks like that. If I watched VotS for the first time I’d leave the site at once.

  • 72 Penny Hardaway // Jan 11, 2013 at 4:00 am


  • 73 SHAZAM // Jan 11, 2013 at 5:45 am

    i would like to thank vots for the history lessons those commenters are very impressive “gets” back to basket ball..i just read an article that said that there wont be a single free agent of worth that the suns could or would get in the next 2 years…that sucks

  • 74 Andres // Jan 11, 2013 at 8:53 am

    @ Shazam – Thats true therefore it seems that the only “real” chance of getting this franchise turned around in the next 2 yrs is via trade.

  • 75 john // Jan 11, 2013 at 9:39 am


    Your reading comprehension skills are truly brilliant. I don’t think any of the other commenters would have realized that I was making a direct comparison of Goran Dragic to the NBA’s all-time greats. Next, I was planning on comparing him to Peyton Manning, Pele, Sandra Schmirler, Steve Jobs, Walter Cronkite, and the Dalai Lama. You would have seen right through those comparisons though, so I guess I might has well just save my words.

    By the way, your boy Nash was quite the yeller. What do you have to say about that?


    Shazam will get a chance to fall back in line before he gets permabanned, I’m sure.

  • 76 Sillmarillion // Jan 11, 2013 at 9:42 am

    So it’s Shazam who was posting all this nazi crap?!

  • 77 SHAZAM // Jan 11, 2013 at 9:49 am

    @ john that is complete apologize you jewish and as offended as sillmarillon….i was NOT the person who did the mengle or goering comments..ask michael he knows the emails the comments originate from.

  • 78 Michael Schwartz // Jan 11, 2013 at 9:58 am


    I had not been reading the comments on this thread, and I was unaware of the Nazi parody posters. I have since deleted all these posts, and this won’t be tolerated in the future. Please let me know if I missed one. It’s funny when you parody a local sports figure like this, but this Nazi stuff will never be tolerated. My apologies to all for not catching it sooner.

  • 79 john // Jan 11, 2013 at 10:00 am


    Haha, all right, just thought I’d throw out a feeler. I’ve figured that at least some of the alter ego posts in the past have been yours, so maybe these were too. I believe you.

  • 80 Cody // Jan 11, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Tony I just think you’re so used to having Nash, but 45% shooting is a lot better than most scoring pgs, and yes Vasquez I really think is a better passer, but he does have some guys that are really good 3 point shooters, and spot up shooters, Dudley are the only 2 consistent spot up shooters on this team, and if you watched Dragic last season with Houston you would definitely see this guy belongs. Yea he does yell but think how frustrating it must be to pass to someone with an easy opportunity to score but they wait for a defender. I honestly wish Dragic stayed in Houston because he played so much more freely, and the expectations for him here in Phoenix would just be ridiculous, but Dragic I know needs to improve and he will, don’t know if you watched Nash in his early years when he first started for a whole season but he struggled big time, and Dragic can continue to get better but losing takes it’s toll on players who are competitive.

Leave a Comment