Grant Hill’s departure leaves ‘a void that’s really tough to fill’


Hill will chase a ring as a Clipper this season. (Illustration by @JFace5)

Hill will chase a ring as a Clipper this season. (Illustration by @JFace5)

PHOENIX — Back in May, Suns PBO Lon Babby stood in front of a group of media members and said he “can’t imagine he would want to play anywhere else.”

That he, of course, was referring to Grant Hill, Babby’s long-time client who has spent the past five seasons as a member of the Phoenix Suns.

“I’d be extremely disappointed if he played somewhere else,” Babby said two and a half months ago.

Well, then Babby must be awfully bummed today after Hill reportedly committed to signing a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Clippers.

In the end, the only surprise was that Hill picked the Clippers over a more established contender like the Lakers and good friend Steve Nash. Once the Suns decided against re-signing Nash and instead embarked on a youth movement, the writing was on the wall that a 40-year-old Hill would no longer be worth a significant investment.

However, Babby has company in his disappointment as head coach Alvin Gentry has coached Hill for 10 years and raves about him every chance he gets.

“Obviously he’s been a real solid guy,” Gentry said today. “I’m very familiar with him, he’s a tremendous player. Obviously it’s a void that’s really tough to fill. It’s just one of those situations where we have to have other guys step up. Grant’s been great. He’s been great on the court, he’s been great from a defensive standpoint and obviously he’s been great in the locker room.”

Gentry said that Marcin Gortat and Jared Dudley will need to step up as leaders along with newcomer Luis Scola, a player the Suns may have plucked in part to fill the leadership void left with the departures of co-captains Nash and Hill. After all, the last thing Babby wants the Suns to become is one of the “rudderless ships” he sees among so many young teams in the NBA.

While today was a tough one for the Suns’ organization to lose a consummate professional like Hill, a certain former Sun was also plenty disappointed by his decision. For those who didn’t click on the link, I’ll give you a hint.

He will share a building with Hill’s team this season despite no longer being a teammate.

Gomes an amnesty cut, Hill likely to sign for biannual exception

When the Hill deal was first reported, league sources were not yet sure whether Hill would sign as a free agent or if he would come via a sign-and-trade with the Suns.

The LA Times’ Broderick Turner reported that after the Clippers chose to amnesty forward Ryan Gomes on Tuesday night, so Hill is now expected to sign a two-year deal worth $3.87 million by accepting the team’s biannual exception.

Gomes’ $4 million salary now will not count against the Clippers’ cap.

It seems clear that the Clippers preferred to do a sign-and-trade with the Suns involving Gomes but Phoenix declined. Such a deal could have allowed Los Angeles to provide Hill with a heftier contract.

According to ShamSports, the Clippers do still have a $2.76 million trade exception from Al-Farouq Aminu in the CP3 trade if they wanted to start Hill there and send the Suns a second-rounder, but it seems Hill will be OK with the biannual exception.

Although I doubt the Suns would have wanted Hill back for his $6.5 million salary from last season, I imagine Babby and Gentry would have been thrilled to get him back for less than $2 mil a season based on his leadership alone, so I wonder whether this was a case of Hill just wanting to play for a contender.

A good problem to have

As the Suns’ roster stands now, Gentry is going to have quite the difficult task of divvying up power forward minutes between Luis Scola, Channing Frye and Markieff Morris. Michael Beasley can also play the four and Hakim Warrick is lurking on the bench, so the Suns have enough fours to field an entire lineup worth of power forwards.

To Gentry, that’s a good problem to have.

“Well, if we’re having trouble with really good players finding minutes than we’re in great shape,” he said. “So that thing usually works itself out and it plays itself out. It’s a situation where I think it will all play itself out. I think that we’ve got two players, and Channing you’ve got to understand he’s going to be out for a part of the season, so just to have those guys be able to step in there and go in I think it’s going to be a great situation, it makes it a competitive situation.”

Frye underwent offseason shoulder surgery after suffering said injury during the third to last game of the season. If Robin Lopez does not return Frye figures to earn backup center minutes, as he shined in that role in 2009-10, but his injury situation likely will require the Suns to add another center of some sort.

How Kobe’s potential early retirement affects the Suns

We all know that the 2013 pick the Lakers convey to the Suns (whichever is worse between the Lakers’ and Heat’s selection) will be at the very bottom of the draft.

The 2015 pick could be a completely different story if Kobe does in fact retire in two years when his contract expires after recently saying “it’s still probably accurate” that he will retire at age 35, a claim he first made as a rookie.

“That’s a long time to be playing,” Bryant said. “It’ll be the last year of my contract. I don’t know if I will play any longer than that. I don’t know. It’s just a possibility. It’s not something I even give it much thought to, but it’s a possibility. It could happen.”

If Kobe retires and Nash slows down as he approaches 41, that partially protected pick could become much more attractive than it appears today.

Scola’s number game

Luis Scola has always worn No. 4.

His dad used to wear No. 4 and his son does so as well when he plays basketball.

However, Marcin Gortat wears No. 4 for the Phoenix Suns so Scola will need to find a new number.

“I’ll find a number that I like, and that’s a really minor thing,” Scola said. “Right now I don’t know. I thought I might play with 11, which is the number I used when we won the Olympic gold medal, but it’s also used [by Markieff Morris]. I don’t know, I’ll have to start thinking there.”

And 1

  • Robert Sarver must be unhappy to learn that Josh Childress cleared waivers without receiving a single bid, according to ESPN’s Marc Stein. Childress will now become an unrestricted free agent. If a team had placed a bid on Chilly, that amount would have cut into the $21 million payout the Suns owe him. It is telling, though, that nobody else in the league thought he was worth even a miniscule bid.
  • Former Suns GM Steve Kerr told Brad Cesmat the following on Scola: “I’m a huge fan. I think he’s a really good player. He’s an excellent passer. He’s an underrated finisher around the rim. I think the fact he and Goran Dragic know each other so well the past couple years in Houston will be a good combination.”
  • Gentry told Dan Bickley on his radio show that Dragic leaving the Suns was the best thing to happen to him so he could blossom out of Nash’s shadow.

Tags: Channing Frye Grant Hill Kobe Bryant Luis Scola

  • Majestic One

    I’m sure Hill would have stayed if the Suns made an offer for him. They didn’t.

  • https://twitter.com/ZeroWolf88 John Devance

    what kind of protection does the 2015 lakers pick have.

    • http://www.valleyofthesuns.com Michael Schwartz

      @John It is top-5 protected in 2015 and top-3 protected in 2016.

  • Scott

    I tell ya, Kerr’s the one calling the shots. :)

    Anyway, the suspense is being bled out of this off-season like gas out of kid’s balloon. With the accompanying noise. ;)

  • Scott

    I thought this note on the high price of amnesty from ESPN was interesting. That’s some serious money.

    $136,395,446: That’s how much guaranteed money was designated for amnesty in 2012 through the releases of Chris Andersen (Denver), Andray Blatche (Washington), Elton Brand (Philadelphia), Josh Childress (Phoenix), Ryan Gomes (L.A. Clippers), Brendan Haywood (Dallas), Darko Milicic (Minnesota) and Luis Scola (Houston).

    $206,138,893: That’s how much guaranteed money was slated for amnesty in 2011 through the releases of Gilbert Arenas (Orlando), Charlie Bell (Golden State), Chauncey Billiups (New York), Baron Davis (Cleveland), Travis Outlaw (Brooklyn), James Posey (Indiana) and Brandon Roy (Portland).

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/47965/the-steep-price-of-amnesty

  • Tony

    @Michael,

    enough is enough! This is the second time Babby has proclaimed something about a player and then done the opposite. First it was Nash, i.e., he’s the “earth, moon, and stars,” or whatever nonsense and then doesn’t have the decency to offer him a contract. Next, he says he would be extremely disappointed if Hill played elsehwere, yet once again, where’s the contract offer? I don’t intend to consistently question the actions of the Suns FO, but what about their double talk? This cartoon character Babby is just a sleazy lawyer/former agent who says one thing and does the other. This is just ridiculous. In all my years of watching professional sports, this FO takes the cake for the most incompetent and deceitful that I’ve ever witnessed.

    Lastly, the more Babby says one thing and does another, the more I’m starting to believe he was instrumental in bringing his former clients, i.e., Hedo and Childress, to the Suns and continues to lie about his involvement in those deals.

  • Jeremy A

    @Scott,

    That is some serious money wasted on mediocre players. Thanks for sharing!

    @Tony,

    I completely agree with your statements. Some of the mistakes made by Babby and Blanks can be expected as they are not well established figures at their positions, but the fact that they talk without action is really upsetting.

  • Jason A.

    Oh @Tony, you’re such a drama queen. The most incompetent and deceitful FO ever? Lol

  • shazam

    i think blabby is VERY deceitful

  • Greg

    @ Tony, lol, why do people like yourself seem to act like you know what the Front Office is doing? Ok, cool, they said Nash is the greatest blah blah, obviously true. They said if Hill’s not back itll be a disappointment blah blah. Just because they didnt offer him a contract doesnt mean they are not disappointed hes not coming back. We sit here on message boards and we read ESPN rumors, and HoopsHype, Bleacherreport, and whatever else we can get our hands on, and then we draw conclusions and post our opinions.

    How do you know what options/scenarios/conversations were had behind closed doors with Grant Hill? We dont know entirely know what was discussed with Nash. To sit here and cry about the most incompetent and deceitful FO you have ever seen is a little out of line and sounds a little incompetent and deceitful from your end in my opinion.

    I have said it before, the Front Office has knowledge and information that we could only dream of having. They have a plan, and what they do behind closed doors and what the media posts about them are likley two completely different things. We sit here a few times a day and post on this site, they sit in their offices all day and work basketball strategy and financial planning.

    So for everyone that reads this, its ok to have an opinion, but don’t assume you know more then the Front Office of any professional sports team on the planet, or else all of our talents would have been put to use by now. Now, obviously teams make dumb decisions, and dumb mistakes, but everything is done for a reason. GMs offer dumb contracts and they make dumb trades, doesnt mean they have less knowledge then any of us. Most importantly, we arent flies on the wall that hear convos between the FO and Hill/Nash etc.

  • Scott

    @Greg -

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Suns decided somewhere around draft time that they were going to cut loose from Nash and Hill and rebuild.

    And while I think it was mainly the idea of two guys (Blanks and Kerr), they asked for everyone to get on board and agree so they could go forward as one.

    To ensure compliance, at the meeting Kerr asked Babby to put his left hand on the conference table and then he whipped his baseball bat around and crushed Babby’s hand.

    “We’re gonna get rid of them, see? And if anyone disagrees, we’re going get rid of THEM, see?”

    Shocked silence.

    “Babby, you wanna see sun, moon and stars? Then put your right hand on the table.”

    And so there was a unanimous agreement to bring Dragic back, but to make him head of a team that totally sucked in return for playing so well after the trade to Houston that it made the Suns FO look bad.

    (Really, these conspiracy stories are too easy. They write themselves! Probably in about 2 months this will be as widely reported as the Jason Richardson love child.)

  • Lloyd I. Cadle

    Kerr also stated that he is very high on Beasley. He said that getting a very talented young player on the rebound could be a heck of a deal for the Suns.

  • Greg

    haha yea @Scott, your account of what happened sounds fairly accurate.

    I personally believe they decided on Nash and Hill prior to draft time/probably heard some noise that the Raptors were prepared to offer Nash way more then we intended. Marshall is a nice talent and has all the skills to be a Rubio type PG, though not quite as quick. However, Waiters/Ross/Lamb/Rivers all not falling to them was probably not the time where they said “Hey, the wings are gone, but Marshall is available! Lets go ahead and draft him and scrap any idea of Nash returning” Marshall isnt that type of cant miss talent, which leads me to believe it was decided around draft time but def well before the draft. Marshall was receiving mention/praise from the front office about a week prior to the draft, I think that is realistically when they decided on Nash.

  • sun also rises

    roflawful @ tony getting pooped on in here. Times like these he starts sounding like Nathan Lane in The Birdcage, squealing about broken toast and once again showing that when it comes to the realities of pro sports he’s basically a little kid in a plastic bubble.

    three weeks ago: “this team sucks, we need new players and the front office isn’t going to get them!”

    two weeks ago: “this team sucks, we need new players and I don’t like the ones we signed!”

    next week: “if only the team had held on to its forty year old players and paid out the a$$ for them, it wouldn’t suck so much! i told you all so!”

    It took some time but at least the posters on here can see just how phony and sick in the head this kid really is. Worst “fan” I’ve ever seen on a team blog, and I’ve spent time on the Clippers mb this year.

  • sun also rises

    Oh and only a serious drama queen would call this the “last straw” and whatever else in the same week that New York waffled on re signing Jeremy Lin. Of course accepting that means someone has to actually watch basketball as a sport (which Tony doesn’t) and have a sense of objectivity (which Tony can’t) but that’s just part of the soap opera for this kid. lolol

  • steve

    @Tony

    I’m just curious about something: Why would you want Grant Hill back for any sum of money?

    I think it’s pretty telling that nobody wanted to take the chance on Hill, even with all of his “veteran leadership.” Would you rather have the Suns throw away another $4M on a player who isn’t good enough to be out there?

    That said, I still don’t believe that you can actually think saying things like “sun, moon, and stars,” and “I’d be extremely disappointed if he played somewhere else,” equates to, “I will sign this player at any cost, no matter if it fits the direction the franchise needs to go to be successful. This is my guy, I am going to have him no matter what.”

    Babby made the “sun, moon, and stars,” reference in the midst of all the trade rumors circling around Nash at the trade deadline. Babby said they were not going to TRADE Steve Nash because Nash was the sun, moon, and stars of the franchise. Translation: “If you don’t give us your best player, we’re not giving you ours.” The Suns got more value out of Nash by being in a playoff hunt for a half-season than they would have got by taking table scraps for him at the trade deadline.

    To the Grant Hill situation, let’s equate this to something a little more relatable. The VP of my company loves me. He has told me many times he doesn’t ever want to see me leave the company. I’m a hard worker, I’m good for the office environment and morale, and I have the high character my company values. However, as time goes on, my skills top out, my efficiency dips, and I’m simply not the asset I once was. I was making $100k before I took this dip. The only way it’s going to work for my company to keep me on is to cut my pay to $30k. People around the office still like me, but I’m just not getting the job done like I used to. Do you think VP is obligated to offer me to stay on for $30k just because he told me he never wanted me to leave? Can he really justify that type of a pay cut without it seeming insulting? Is it really worth paying someone to hang around in the office just to make people laugh and show them the ropes?

    Saying you never want someone to leave does not mean “I will never let you leave.” It means something more along the lines of “I like having you around, and I wish things could stay like this forever.”

  • Greg

    lol i cant wait to see his response. if i was him i would consider licking my wounds and try to post next time with something we wont all bash, as oppose to defending his last post

  • http://jtshoopsblog.blogspot.com JT’s Hoops Blog

    I would not go as far to say that Hill has lkeft this big void, there. he’s pushing 40 and is on the tailspin of his career anyways.

  • Greg

    i think what was meant by void to fill in terms of other qualities that differ from his actual play on the court. replacing his production will be relatively easy. replacing his leadership, experience, and locker room presence will be the void that is hard to fill. Also, he usually did a nice job guarding the other teams best player, made Durant really work for his points 2 out of the 3 games he was on him. He also would guard PG and SG, so his defensive versatility, which was at a pretty high level still, will also be hard to replace.

    eliminating the locker-room aspect of things, yes, Grant Hill does not leave a huge void, but one that needs to be replaced none the less

  • cha cha cha

    “Kerr also stated that he is very high on Beasley.”

    I think he meant to say he was “high with Beasley”… or maybe “Beasley” is what Kerr calls mary j.

  • sun also rises

    @ greg – if I had to guess I would go with his usual schtick of ignoring all the points you made and bringing up crap from four years ago. Probably with a bunch of refs to how we’re all supports of the front office and this-and-that.

    Tony’s brain is like a hard drive from a 1980s computer. He can pull off simple tasks but when it gets too complicated he just starts clicking and choking up, then gets stuck in a busted loop

  • http://www.valleyofthesuns.com Michael Schwartz

    Yes, Greg is correct, that is what Gentry was talking about. The leadership void will be pretty impossible to fill.

  • Tony

    I just knew my comments about the FO would rile up the last bastion of Sarver-supporters/employees!

    @Scott,

    insinuating that my presumptions regarding the Suns FO is equivalent to some sort of “conspiracy theory” as an attempt to denigrate my arguments only proves your ignorance, in that you failed to present any substantive rebuttal to my claims. Now, I expect such a response from Sun Also Rises, who is such a loser that he has to hide behind a silly user-name, very typical of those in their 40s still living with their mom’s basement and without any sort of personal accomplishments whatsoever. He’s so stupid that he uses quotation signals when stating his own lies and not any actual quotes that I made. Scott, you are better than that. Don’t resort to baseless rhetoric intended to elicit support by reducing the validity of my arguments to mere “conspiracy” theories, as that really is the last refuge for the ignorant.

    @Greg,

    firstly, you do realize that VOTS represents only a miniscule fraction of Suns fans and that by most polls conducted in Phoenix, the Suns FO is ranked last in terms of which sports franchise in Arizona they expect to win a title, right? The most prominent reason for choosing the Suns was the extremely poor approval rating of the Suns FO, in particular Robert Sarver. So again, please don’t assume you or Scott or Sun Loser were successful in rebutting my arguments, because they weren’t and neither were you.

    You say how can I possibly know what’s going on behind the scenes….,well that goes both way bud. You also have no idea whatsoever. However, at least my arguments have merit whereas yours are completely speculative and without any factual support. Babby called Nash the “Sun….” describing his importance to the franchise, only six months ago! You don’t go from labeling someone with such

  • Tony

    @Greg cont….,

    excuse the interruption in my posting, I had an internet disconnection.

    Anyway, in regards to Babby, to go from labeling Nash with such austerity to then not even asking to meet with him in free agency is extremely disingenous. Then, he basically did the same thing with Grant Hill. He supported Hill’s importance to the franchise through multiple public statements, but then doesn’t even offer him a reasonable contract? It’s not as if Hill was demanding a ton of money as he agreed to a 2-yr deal less than $2 million per season. That’s hardly a major demand. Once again, if Babby’s claims were authentic, regarding Hill’s importance and that he would be extremely dissapointed if Hill played elsewhere, then why didn’t he offer Hill a reasonable contract or even offer him a deal similar to the Clippers? Obviously, this contradicts his previous statements concerning Hill.
    Furthermore Greg, I’m assuming you are aware that Hedo and Childress were former clients of Babby and that he has consistently denied being responsible for bringing those two players to the Suns. Now, judging by his most recent inconsistencies, do you really believe Babby when he denies participation in recruiting them?? If you do, you must be highly nieve or living in a fantasy world.

    @Steve,

    the mistake in your analysis is your presumption that I would want Hill back at any price. I never claimed that Hill should even get as much as last season, but not even offering him a $4 million deal for 1 season or $5 million for 2 seasons hardly qualifies as an extensive blow to the Suns salary cap situation. Furthermore, if they truly were committed to rebuilding, the FO would not have picked up Scola, whom will only take valuable time away from Morris’s development.
    The other inappropriate presumption you are making is that Hill no longer has enough value to help the team. While Hill did have an off-year last season, a lot of that should be qualified due to the lockout and the uncertainty regarding even playing an NBA season. We’ve seen what that platlet-enrichment procedure has done for Kobe, well Hill received it over the summer as well. Unless there are reasonable merits concerning his health at this point, the perimeter defense and ability to run the floor, make him more than sufficient to really help this team, and that’s not even including the invaluable importance he provides in terms of leadership.

    So anyway, Greg and Steve, I appreciate the intellectual debate, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Neither of you two have presented any factual basis supporting your claims, so at this point, I don’t see any reason to mitigate my distrust of the Suns FO.

    Scott, like I said previously, I expect more from you than resorting to childish retorts equivalent to Sun Also Rises loser quality.
    Lastly, Jason, your lack of effort to under-cut my arguments and resorting to personal insults makes you no better than the above loser Sun Rises.

  • http://none Michael

    And we dont have a single SG on the roster….

  • sun also rises

    I was laughing so hard at Tony’s post that my gf had to come upstairs and see what the joke was… it’s like when some coke bottle glasses wearing kid gets his dander up in 11th grade and decides that he’s going to tell off the popular kids, but the best he can do is swallow his tongue and repeat the same six things over and over again.

    thanks for not disappointing, urkel. my ribs hurt. lolololooooool

  • sun also rises

    actually, more like 9th grade. that’s the point when kids start thinking that using words like “mitigate” and trying to insult people based on punctuation starts… and should technically end, unless you’re a brain dead queef like our boy here.

    roflawful @ “intellectual debate…” you should have your own podcast, tony. like karl pilkington if he took himself seriously. god hahaha

  • Tony

    @Sun Loser,

    Of course by gf, you are referring to your Sarver blowup doll.

    Look, you are far too intellectually inferior to have a rational discussion with. In terms of my vocabulary, I may have a tendency to unintentionally employ some legal terms such as “mitigate” because of my legal background, but that’s irrelevant. The point is, you are a loser unable to articulate any substantive facts to dispute my claims. My suggestion for you is to go back and be entertained by your Sarver blowup doll and leave the discussions about the Suns to adults. Either way, I’m finished responding to you.

  • Shane

    Just ignore Tony, he will go away eventually.

  • SunsCritic

    Great idea! VotS community podcast! Get Tony, Scott, Steve, Rich and any other long term active regulars together for a discussion on Suns basketball. Do it Schwartz! Community involvement is where it’s at.

  • SunsCritic

    You could point them like around the horn or put up a poll to have the rest of the community decide who had the most compelling arguments!

  • A-ROCK

    Tony you are dumb not to know Babby is a business man. He wants his business to look good and at that time he said that Grant and Nash was part of his business, Obviously he made the right and best decision for the team in not offering the contracts to Nash and Grant Hill. You make such ridiculous points that are tirades of emotion and you need to shut your trap. For 2 you say QUOTE in post 5 “I don’t intend to consistently question the actions of the Suns FO” but you do it every time you make a point. So in turn your doing the same thing the Babby did! 3 the bad thing about it is I know your not a business man and your dumb as I don’t know what. Get a clue dummy.

  • Rich Anthony, (KJL)

    My involvement in any Suns-related VoTS round table would consist of Dragic fanboyism, Frank Ocean playing in the background, and a looping highlight reel of Kevin Johnson setup behind me.

    Book me at your own risk.

  • http://www.valleyofthesuns.com Michael Schwartz

    @SunsCritic That’s a great idea. We could even do a Vokle show if the regulars are willing to show their face (if anybody really is a high school kid, their cover would be blown). I’d be happy to moderate what I’m sure would be a, well, rather interesting debate.

  • Greg

    @ tony

    when did i ever say i know what goes on behind the scenes? dont argue based on putting words in my mouth. i just said you dont, and niether does anyone else. Hill would not have accepted 2 million from the Suns, only a playoff or contending team. and letting Nash move on was a good bball decision, with his 10-12 million dollars hed want from the suns, it would tie the organizations hands and make it difficult to add pieces to help him be successful. they would continue to be battling for an 8 seed with or without Nash, it was a good move for the Suns and a good move for Nash, he has a chance to win a title in L.A. Him saying being close to his kids is a little misleading and an excuse, why did he live at his Summer home in NY if he wants to be so close to his kids? He most likley just realized L.A. was the best option and he could have a nice excuse so everyone wouldnt be so pissed. I love Nash and he is the Suns, but it was time for both sides to part ways.

    Why would Babby help former clients? If he did, it was because he thought Hedo and Childress would be helpful players and good characters guys, considering he knew them as people better than anyone. which all of us can agree we had high hopes for them as well. A former agent would have no monetary gain from recruiting those guys. I understand the reasoning for the conspiracy but dont assume and claim I live in a fantasy world. If i recall most posters on here find your points and post comical, not mine.

    Also the surgury helped Kobe, he is 6/7 years younger and hasnt had all of the injuries Grant Hill has. Grant is old and declining no matter what surgery he gets. so speak of talking with no factual basis. Also, do you really think the lock-out affected a 38 year old vet that much? Hmmm, a lock-out means no summer league, no camps, no pre-season. it would affect rookies and young guys, not as much for Hill. You sit here and bash us for “have not presented any factual basis supporting your claims”, but you sit there and do it too.

    I didnt even make a claim, I just said none of us can assume what happens behind closed doors, so your debate towards me was really unjustified. I also said FO’s make dumb signings and dumb trades but they are still smarter then we are….thats the only claim i think i made, and its obviously true. the rest was just stating we cant assume.

    What “claims” did I make? I dont see any in my post.

  • steve

    That roundtable sounds like an interesting idea. I would be down, however I prefer to keep my face away from the internet whenever possible.

  • Greg

    I would be interested as well, it would be alot of fun preparing for a debate like that

  • Salvador Dali

    Why bother to even argue with Tony? His mind is made up. His beliefs are his facts and none of you will ever change his mind so it’s really a waste of time trying to argue with him… unless you actually enjoy his often surreal responses.

    But I actually must thank those of you who do argue with him here. Reading his posts that accuse you of doing EXACTLY what he does is very amusing! I believe that psychologists call that “projection”.

  • Tony

    @Greg,

    firstly, I wouldn’t be too proud that a few VTOS members agree with you, especially considering many of those are such losers they use silly user-names instead of posting with their names. (See Sun Also Rises and A-Rock).

    Regarding your first claim, I do agree, that none of us can truly know the inner workings of any front office. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t inferences based on their actions and other such circumstantial evidence. For example, in yesterday’s Suns Summer League game, during Sarver’s interview he was asked, “what next for the Phoenix Suns…, are you done you think?”, his reply was “I think we are pretty close to done…..” Now, I’m not claiming that I have some psychic ability to know exactly what he meant but, a reasonable interpretation of what Sarver means is that the FO is not going to make any further concerted effort to improve the team’s roster. Or, when Paul Coro of the Arizona Republic explicitly states that no contract was actually offered to Nash and that the FO did not ask to meet with him during free agency, yet they managed to meet with Robin Lopez, is circumstantial evidence of their intentions regarding Nash. Or, when Blanks was quoted as saying that he believed Dragic was a better person than basketball player. Now, these are just a few examples of the FO’s statements/actions they have engaged in that reasonably allow us to infer some of their beliefs and intentions concerning the Suns future.

    In regads to Grant Hill, I do agree that the FO probably would have had to offer him a larger contract than the Clippers did. Yet, it’s not as if the Suns have reached their cap limit or that another player they highly regarded would have been prevented from joining the Suns by offering Hill a slightly larger contract. Yet, once again from Paul Coro, no contract offer was made AT ALL to Hill. With that being the case, does it really seem as if Babby was being genuine when he said he would be extremely disappointed if Hill played elsewhere next season?
    Furthermore, I completely disagree about the effects of the lockout on older players versus younger players. In particular, guys like Nash, Hill, and other veteran players, have customary routines to prepare for the season, ususally taking a slower approach to prepare their bodies for the long grind of an NBA season. THe lockout forced these guys to rush their preparation, which I believe adversely effected Hill more so than younger players. Furthermore, although the season was shorter in terms of games played, the regular season was condensced dramatically, forcing Nash and Hill to play much more frequently without the usual rest in between games. Thus, although I admit I am being speculative in my assessment of Hill’s potential for next season, I do believe he will have a much better season and be far healthier than last season’s lockout-condensced schedule.

  • Tony

    @Michael,

    sounds like a great idea, I’m very willing to debate some of these yahoos and demonstrate just how ignorant they truly are!

    • http://www.valleyofthesuns.com Michael Schwartz

      I really do think it could be fun, but there will have to be a couple of ground rules. Namely no swearing and attacking the argument but no personal attacks like we so often get in the comments.

  • Salvador Dali

    Tony would have to stay silent then since virtually all of his posts have had some sort of personal attacks or insults in them. He can’t speak without insulting someone else. It’s just his nature. You might as well ask a leopard to exchange his spots for strips!

  • Salvador Dali

    You really do amuse me, Tony. Sarver really IS one of the cheapest owners in the NBA, Blanks and Babby really have only the slightest clue as to what they are doing but YOU – I repeat – YOU and people like you are their BEST defense! You come off sounding like a UFO conspiracy nut at times which only hurts your case.

    You sometimes have good points that you make but those are often lost in the BS that you throw back at the people who disagree with you.

    It’s a comic tragedy that I find endlessly amusing. Thank you very much for that!

    I look forward to your response! Rip me as much as you can! I will enjoy the laughs I get from it!

  • Greg

    @tony, agreed on lockout condensed season affecting vets, and the off-season training is a good point.

  • Greg

    UFOs are real…theres proof..

  • Tony

    @Michael,

    sounds good to me but in dealing with immature losers who hide behind childish user names or whom are so pathetic they take the name of a famous surrealist painter, I doubt these dingbats could go more than 5 seconds without resorting to their preferrable method of debating, i.e., espousing nonsensical diatribes without any material relevancy, formed and enhanced through their countless years as moronic knuckleheads.