Charlotte Bobcats 114, Phoenix Suns 107 -- Lacking something extra


PHOENIX — With the game no longer in doubt with 22 seconds remaining, one play typified the entire evening — and some would say the entire season — for the Phoenix Suns.

After the Charlotte Bobcats had already rebounded a pair of misses to milk a seven-point lead during a possession that started with 1:37 left on the game clock, Gerald Wallace swooped in to grab one more game-clinching board as three Suns idly stood by in the vicinity.

That final meaningless rebound provided an enduring snapshot of this ballgame, a 114-107 victory that the Bobcats took because of superior crunch-time execution and flat-out wanting it more on the balls that could go either way.

“I don’t want to say guys aren’t trying, just sometimes we don’t finish plays,” Steve Nash said. “We don’t grab loose balls, we don’t grab rebounds that are kind of 50-50 ones. I just think we kind of fall asleep sometimes and give up possessions here and there that at the end of the game are crucial.”

Nash attributed this fallacy to a lack of concentration and discipline, and that showed on the final possession when Boris Diaw and D.J. Augustin both corralled crucial rebounds with the Suns trailing by just seven before Wallace’s final board.

A peeved Alvin Gentry took just one question after his opening statement, and he took that time to rant about the Suns’ inability to finish games.

Gentry spoke of how most NBA games come down to three or four possessions. After Nash’s brilliance (27 and 15 on 11-for-15 shooting, his first 27-15 game since 2007) kept them close, the Suns just could not execute down the stretch.

Trailing by two with four minutes left after a Nash layup, the Bobcats scored on four consecutive possessions. Meanwhile, the Suns got an ugly missed runner from Vince Carter, a Nash three, missed threes from Goran Dragic and Channing Frye and then a pass from Carter that Marcin Gortat could not handle for a turnover that led to Charlotte’s game-ending possession.

“We have to be tougher and come up with plays,” Gentry said. “We didn’t do that and that’s why we lost the game. You’ve got to be able to come up with plays and you’ve got to show some toughness and be able to rebound the basketball and have possessions and finish plays. That’s how you win games, that’s how you win close games. We didn’t make any of those, and that’s why we’re sitting here with another loss.”

After trailing most of the first half, the Suns surged ahead 79-72 midway through the third quarter behind a hot-shooting period in which they hit 8-of-11 threes (including 3-of-3 long-range shooting from both Nash and Frye) before the Bobcats stormed right back with an 18-6 run to take a lead they would never relinquish.

The Suns found a way to lose a game in which they shot 50 percent from beyond the arc (16-for-32) and got five treys from Vince Carter and four each from Nash and Frye.

The Suns, however, lost their fourth straight game to this Charlotte franchise (the most consecutive wins any squad has over Phoenix) on the other end of the floor, as the Suns have now yielded Charlotte’s two highest-scoring games of the season. The Bobcats average 118.5 points on 54.2 percent shooting from the field and 50 percent shooting from three against Phoenix, but just 92.0 points on 44.3 percent shooting from the field and 33.4 percent from three against everyone else.

“We’ve had trouble with them the last couple years,” Jared Dudley said. “They just did a good job of exploiting mismatches at times. For the most part they beat us to loose balls, hustle plays and they deserved to win.”

Looking big picture the Suns have now lost three in a row in the aftermath of their five-game winning streak and are now back to four games under .500. Even worse, they’ve now been swept by mediocre Eastern Conference teams in Philadelphia and Charlotte, and that doesn’t exactly happen to most West playoff contenders.

Just like the New Jersey overtime win appeared to be a turning point victory, we may end up looking back at the Detroit loss as the one that sent this season spiraling back in the direction it was headed all year before that five-game glimmer of hope.

“I’m as frustrated as probably everybody else is around here,” Frye said. “I’m just kind of sick of this losing crap, to be honest.”

In many ways the Suns look like a defeated team. Multiple players visibly made a big deal out of every call that went against them, their frustration mounting with every bad break.

Carter — who actually revived his corpse with a very nice 22-point effort on 8-for-17 shooting on a day that reminds us how old he is, his 34th birthday — gave the same speech he’s been giving to reporters since he arrived about how “we have to rise above it,” “it just has to be positive thinking and positive attitude,” and “I believe it can happen.”

But such statements ring hollow for a team whose leader (Nash) openly talks about lacking a determination to finish plays as a team.

The Suns now continue a critical homestand that includes very losable games against Boston, New Orleans, Milwaukee and Oklahoma City. If they can’t beat Charlotte, it’s hard to believe they would win more than one or two of the rest of these games.

We aren’t in November anymore, we are past the halfway point of the season and there really isn’t time for this team to find itself anymore as it continues to drift further below .500.

“I feel like we’re lacking that little bit extra, that little bit of something to finish plays and stay with it mentally,” Nash said.

That something missing is why the Suns now sit in 11th place in the West four games out of a playoff spot after dropping another game they could have won.

Tags: Steve Nash

  • Joe

    “I feel like we’re lacking that little bit extra, that little bit of something to finish plays and stay with it mentally,” Nash said

    That something missing is Amare Stoudemire, and Robert Sarver is the one who lost him. Just like he broke up SSOL. Just like he hired Terry Porter. Just like he traded for Shaq. Just like he traded away draft picks for cash. I’m pretty much done supporting the Suns franchise. The only reason I still hang on is for Steve Nash, but otherwise I refuse to support Robert Sarver. Guy is more interested in saving money than winning a championship, clearly, and at the expense of Nash who’s given it all to the franchise.

    Suns may make the playoffs this year still, but they’ve got no chance at a title now. That’s what losing your 20-9 power forward will do to you. How do you split up a team that was 2 wins from a title.. because a guy MIGHT get injured 3-4 years down the line? If that happens you deal with it when the time comes. Right now you gotta go for broke and give the franchise one more shot at a title with Nash.. Sad face.

  • Pingback: Tweets that mention Charlotte Bobcats 114, Phoenix Suns 107 -- Lacking something extra -- Topsy.com

  • http://www.twitter.com/arturbm Artur Mascarenhas

    You just dont lose this kind of game at home. You just dont.

    What the Suns are missing is a LEADER. The guy that just wont let this things happen. A guy who call out the teammates, who takes responsability and makes sure everybody is playing hard.

    Sadly, Nash, Hill and Gentry – our three main figures on the team – are way too nice and soft to make things change. So, right now, I think I can only blame them for what this team is underachieving (even with all Sarver’s mistakes, this team should be performing better)

  • Nash_rules

    Suns and playoffs don’t rhyme this year, just forget about about it.

    At least Gentry showed some character dealing with the loss in the press conference losing his temper which reveals it is really getting to him (as opposed to the politically correct statements of some players).

    Great point Artur, agreee completely: “A guy who call out the teammates, who takes responsability and makes sure everybody is playing hard.” Either someone rises and yell and gets mad about losing winnable games or the remaining season will be an excruciating sequence of “positive thinking” declarations like Vince Carter always does.

    It’s not about losing, it is about giving all you have so if you lose people say at least they gave all they had!

    2 things puzzle me at this point:

    1. why the 2 big men are never put together at the same time against strong physical teams that know their stuff around the rim?

    2. Pietrus is an EXCELLENT DEFENDER AND 3 POINTS player… so he should be getting playing time… also because he is younger he can be coached, instruct him to play Suns ball and dry the main scorer of the other team, I mean does anyone recall the job he did on Kobe in the finals (if you can do that to Kobe…) ??? When you have jewells at the bench and you just stare at them I guess you’re not such a great coach…

    Still admire Gentry for what he did but he and his staff are not making the most of the pieces they have… Warrick had many 20+ games in the beginning, gone… Gortat having a career night last game and he doesn’t play a ton of minutes, forget about Lopez and Frye, they are mediocre at best. Frye is unidimensional (either the 3′s drop or not, end of conversation) and Lopez is a soft giant.

    SOMEONE PLEASE GET MAD AND GETS VOCAL TO MAKE THE SUNS RISE AGAIN!

  • Phil

    The Suns are not missing a leader. They have one in Nash. They aren’t even missing Stat and his 17 boards in the 4 Lakers defeats in the Conference finals. What the Suns are missing is NBA starter quality players, because the fact is they have 2. Nash’s best teammate is even older than he is (Hill), his other starters also feature a career quitter who is now washed up into the bargain (carter), and R-Lo who has regressed so alarmingly he is now probably the worst 7 footer getting significant minutes in the entire league. The rest of the squad are all nice pieces who would be fine if they were your 6th, 7th or 8th man, but are not starter quality. There is no point continuing with this squad as it will finish 8-12th in the west and the two best players are a year nearer retirement.

    The Suns therefore have 2 options and 2 only – somehow package 3 (or more) of their mediocre players to get another borderline all star back (difficult), or blow it all up and get value for our only asset (Nash). This is hard as it means trading our best player (ever), but is ultimately better for him and the franchise. Sarver needs make the right move for once and think about the long term and ignore the fans who complain such a move is cheap. (For the record, I don’t think Sarver is that cheap – just a poor decision maker. Selling draft picks then spending far more money on Marcus banks isn’t cheap, just stupid)

  • Pingback: Phoenix Suns Director

  • Steve

    @Joe

    I don’t really think you could be more wrong about Sarver. I understand your anger, but directing it at Sarver is a mistake. I’ll address the points you brought up and back up my statement with some reason:

    1. Amare Stoudemire is not a championship player. He’s an entertaining player who can will his team to regular season wins, but he is not a legitimate #1 on a contender. Obviously this is debatable, as what I stated is opinion. But it’s the opinion that I hold, Robert Sarver holds, and obviously the rest of the league besides the Knicks holds as well. Only one team offered Amare the max. One. Sarver wasn’t being cheap, he was being reasonable. And by the way, he still offered to throw about $100M the guy’s way. If you ask me, he offered TOO MUCH for Amare to stay.

    2. He didn’t break up SSOL. Kerr wanted to do that, and for good reason. SSOL doesn’t win championships. Kerr won how many championships in his career? 4? 5? And they were on teams that did it with DEFENSE primarily and then one or two prolific players who could will their team to victory. Kerr knew how to win championships, and he knew D’Antoni didn’t. The experiment went sour, and Suns fans are too impatient so ownership had to backtrack and revert to our “entertaining” ways rather than trying to actually bring a championship banner here.

    3. Kerr Traded for Shaq. And honestly, it wasn’t that bad of a trade in some respects. I disagree with it, but I can see why the trade was made. Shaq puts butts in seats, he gets the name of the franchise in the national spotlight, and he is a proven winner. That was in the middle of everyone thinking, “The reason the Suns can’t win is because they don’t have a true big.” I blame Kerr in the sense that Shaq wasn’t the guy to bring a championship, but I don’t blame him for making a move. The Marion Suns weren’t going to win. Something had to be done. Kerr just made the wrong move, but admitted it quickly and got us back on our old track quickly.

    4. Terry Porter was Kerr’s guy also. For the same reason as Shaq, I don’t really blame Kerr all that much for this one. And again, he recanted quickly.

    5. The draft picks are inexcusable. You’re dead on about that. We need to build through the draft, not free agency.

    6. Sarver is not cheap. He’s not the spendiest owner, but the Suns’ payroll is always right around the middle of the league, usually somewhere between 10 and 15. I don’t get why people call him “cheap” when more than half of the owners in the league spend less than him. Instead of insulting Sarver without facts, just look at the numbers and see if what you’re saying is actually true.

    If you’re looking for someone to blame for THIS YEAR, Sarver is your guy. I totally agree with that. He made some bonehead moves in the offseason (not paying Kerr, losing half of his staff, acquiring 73 small forwards), but he is still one of the winningest owners over the course of his ownership.

    Lastly, I don’t like Sarver. I think he has entertainment value in mind and dollar signs in his eyes. I think his goal is to put an entertaining product in front of us rather than to build a team that will bring a banner to PHX. I liked the Colangelo ownership team much more as far as our hopes for a title were concerned. But since Sarver is what we’ve got, I’d rather look at his ownership objectively than throw out insults that simply aren’t true. He’s not the worst owner in the world, people. Stop looking for someone to blame besides the players.

  • Mike

    Folks, there is no need to get ANGRY and CALLING players out. This is the NBA. People are grown-ups. They get paid. If they don’t live up to their paycheck, they get traded or released. No need to go all KOBE on everyone. It won’t make a difference.

  • Jason

    @Steve

    Excellent post man, I agree with everything you wrote. I’ll always love the Suns but this team needs to wake up and figure it out quick. The only guys that should be playing right now are those that put it all on the line.

  • Zak

    I agree mostly with Steve. Sarver certainly isn’t a spendthrift but he’s also far from being the cheapest owner in the NBA. Stat leaving did hurt but not as much – IMHO – as some of the other moves/trades made since then. The Turkoglu trade was a failure not partially because someone just hoped that Hedo could play the 4 instead of his natural 3 spot (where the Suns already had plenty of talent) and partially because Barbosa was part of that trade. Loosing Barbosa might seem like a small thing but he was part of the great Phoenix “bench mob” we had last year. I think that the Suns signed Childress to try and replace him and I think he could have done that except that the Suns stupidly let Amundson go during the off season. Amundson seemed like the heart and soul of that bench mob to me. Few players on any team seemed to give more effort than he did while he was on the court even though a lot of the things his did didn’t show up in the box scores. We probably would have been better off this season if ALL the Suns had done after Amare left was to just sign Warrick (or another reasonably good 4), keep the rest of the team intact and see what happened. Considering all of the changes that have been made to the team this year, whether you want to call it that or not, this already IS a rebuilding year. At this point we only have SIX players left from last years team (Nash, Hill, Frye, Dudley, Lopez and Dragic)! And other than acquiring Gortat (and maybe Pietrus) all the other rebuilding moves have been at best “lame”. With the exceptions of Nash, Hill and Gortat, the Suns have a roster of backups and role players. And as much as I love Steve Nash, he’s at best just an average defensive player. The SSOL philosophy makes for exciting games but defense has always been what wins championships. That’s one of the reasons that the NBA has the 24 second shot clock. Defense is part of the offense too. Slowing down the game through the offense works very well for good defensive teams but makes for boring basketball because you wind up with final scores like 45-39. That certainly isn’t nearly as exciting as the 145-139 games… even if your team looses those. The Suns need to change direction and concentrate on defense rather than offense if they want to ever win a championship. And you probably can blame Sarver for that because I think he wants to give the Phoenix fans an exciting team rather than a championship team to watch. This year he’s unfortunately given us neither to watch.

  • Mel.

    Steve, maybe you can save this post as a “go-to” response whenever we get these periodic “Sarver is Satan and he’s killed the franchise while causing global warming and the economic crash of 2008″ diatribes.

    I mean, honestly, it can’t be put any clearer or more effectively than that. Bury the STAT fantasies and the generic “we hates the owner” finger-pointing and find another team to labor over if the Suns are really causing you THAT much duress.

  • Zak

    Mel, Sarver did at least contribute to global warming even if he didn’t cause it. Just consider all of the angry, hot tempered Suns fans this year… that alone had to contribute at least a little to global warming. ;)

  • Kevin

    @ Steve

    You had a nice post. I agreed with a lot of it but not all of it. The only point I do want to argue thought (and Zak agreed with you as well) is your statement that the SSOL Suns and their offensive minded ways not being able to win a championship.

    It would be unfair to say something as simple as “Well look…they never won.” Throughout the entire D’Antoni era it’s indisputable to me that they were LEGITIMATE championship contenders and that to me means that style or that team COULD have won it all. If you’ve got the real potential to win it all it’s untrue to dismiss their style as “incapable” of winning the big prize.

    Look, only one team wins every year. The Suns throughout those years had bad breaks too. I’m not trying to make excuses for them, I’m simply stating some facts. Championship teams get a little lucky too (by staying completely healthy for example). Joe Johnson broke his face that one year, STAT missed the next year completely…the infamous suspension game…

    To me if one lucky break had gone their way one of those years…there’s no doubt in my mind they would have gone on to thrash the team coming out of the East.

    I’m not saying their style is the best and most orthodox way of winning a championship…I’m purely saying they definitely could have won a championship playing that way. And before the Marion trade…weren’t they awesome again that year? They had the league best record or 2nd if my memory serves me correctly. They were real contenders that year too….don’t understand why you would mess with something that’s not broken.

    It just peeves me when people say they can’t win that way. Catching a couple bad breaks and being unable to overcome those doesn’t deserve people then claiming “Oh you guys can never win like that”. On top of that they had to beat an all time great as well (Tim Duncan…top 10 player of all time)…doesn’t those Suns deserved to be written off as just a “regular season team”. So all the teams that Jordan beat in the 90s weren’t championship caliber teams either right? No. They most certainly were. My point is a lot of things have to come together in your favor to win it all, including the talent and style of your team and those 04-07 Suns teams definitely had the talent and style.

    Plus if we really want to use hindsight…look where we are now. Yes, yes I do prefer a team that legitimately contends for the championship rather than a team headed for the lottery.

    Last notes….

    1. Robert Sarver is a terrible owner….call him cheap, call him a poor decision maker…whatever…the point is he gets poor results….very poor results.

    2. Trade Nash to a contender please and start rebuilding…everyone wins that way.

    3. I’m not debating my position on how I feel about those SSOL Suns. I wrote my piece and I’m done there.

  • Elway

    If everyone here is a true suns fan…we all want nash to win a championship to solidify himself as one of the best PGs to ever play the game and we all know the chances of that happening in phoenix are….slim to none…Trade nash to a team that has a high chance of winning, in my heart i honestly want him to walk away from the game with a championship ring.

  • Cam

    Hey guys it could be worse. We could have Donald Sterling as an owner. The LAC got Blake Griffin for being terrible. Once Blake becomes a free agent Sterling will let him leave without making any real effort to keep him. I am much happier as a Suns fan, even this year, than I ever could ever be as an LAC fan, or as a fan of any other team that loses year in and year out. Every team is gonna have it’s low points. Hopefully ours only lasts a year or two.

  • Cam

    And one more thing. Trade VC this season and don’t trade Nash until the draft. He can go to a championship caliber team and we could probably get more to rebuild with that way.
    Go Suns…

  • MKM

    “We don’t grab loose balls, we don’t grab rebounds that are kind of 50-50 ones. I just think we kind of fall asleep sometimes and give up possessions here and there that at the end of the game are crucial.”

    There is absolutely no excuse for any Suns player to be out-hustled. Obviously we are not as talented as the contenders, the only chance we have is to out-hustle them (like last season).
    There is still hope without trading Nash, Gentry MUST do the following:
    1. Bench anyone immediately (other than Nash & Hill) if no obvious effort is shown on the floor.
    2. Trade those players who refuse to hustle before the trade deadline
    3. Provide consistent mins & define clear roles for all remaining players and start the play-off run!

    There is still hope and Nash and Hill can still realize their dreams in Phoenix!

  • Mike

    You guys all acting like making a trade is going to make a difference. Unless you can get any of the top 5 young stars right now, it won’t make a difference.

  • Cam

    Let me ask a quick question. If the Suns traded away Nash in the off season for a future pick and then traded their two first round picks in the upcoming draft for a player, say a Ricky Rubio type, that could at least make things fun to watch while the Suns lumber through another season of mediocrity, would you be all for it? I think if we could get someone to build around and make things exciting I would watch.

  • Andrew

    How many draft picks do we have in this upcoming draft does anyone know? We should really start making moves for more picks and build some nice young talent and a solid bench for cheap and then eventually lure a free agent who sees potential to be “the man or franchise” with very competent pieces around him 2 through 10

  • Matt Manske

    This team is not making the playoffs.

    I’d love to see Nash go to a contender other than LA for the right assets. My brain would explode if I saw Nash in Purple and Gold. The only problem is that I don’t see any other elite contenders with a need for him besides Orlando, and I don’t know who they could give back to make the trade worth it. Boston has Rondo, Chicago has Rose, Miami is next to impossible to trade with cap-rules wise, San Antonio is set with Parker (and would be just as brutal to see him play for as LA), and Dallas doesn’t have much to offer either for a rebuilding project. So Nash going to a contender and helping Phoenix in one move isn’t very likely. It would be heartbreaking to see him have to play for an even WORSE team like Minnesota that could trade us back great assets like Rubio or Love.

    What young players are worth trading him for, and what teams would be willing to make such a deal?

    What I see as the best option is to keep him for the rest of the season and see what opportunities come up in the summer. There’s always next season to move him if necessary as well.

    Ideally we want to trade Carter and FAST. He is a bad fit chemistry wise and his contract could bring back value.

  • Zak

    Kevin, the real problem with the SSOL system is that you HAVE to catch the “breaks” to win it all. I truly do love watching that style of play but defense is simply more consistent than offense. It’s MUCH easier to play consistently great defense than consistently great offense. Yeah there were some bad breaks over the years that went against the Suns that hurt them in the hunt for a championship but that’s the way it goes with teams that rely mainly on offense rather than defense. The Suns WERE legitimate contenders for many years but when something happened to compromise the offense the defense wasn’t up to the task to pick up the slack. Last year’s bench mob was probably one of if not the best defensive team the Suns have ever had. Give me Dragic, Barbosa, Dudley, Amundson and even Jarron Collins at the 5 and I’d bet that team could have done almost as well if not better than the present Suns team this year. My present worries about the Suns this year are that they are going to be to good to have a shot at getting one of the first three lottery picks or sneak into the playoffs at the 8th spot, make a quick exit and wind up with at best a probably useless mid-level first round pick in the draft next year. This season is over for the Suns. Best for everyone to accept that be prepared to move on… except for the players. Gortat is the future of this team. He’ll never be an all-star but but I believe he’s the foundation to build upon. He’s a solid, strong CONSISTENT player. Nash and Hill will be gone soon. Dragic is an above average PG but will never be Steve Nash. We should stop trying to make him be that because NO ONE will ever be another Steve Nash! Hill is a great player but, realistically, how many more seasons does he have left in him? And although I like Frye, I really do, he’s simply a great second team PF. AS a starter, he’s too predictable. Lay off him and let him have the three shots until he shows that he can make them. If he make them, then challenge him and make him shoot them over you with usually throws him off . It’s worth the gamble either way because he rarely goes toward the basket. The jumper is his first choice whether it’s a 3 or a 2. Too predictable. Lol, I sound like I know it all but surely I don’t or I would be at least a GM for some NBA team. I’m not. I’m just a humble Suns fan who wishes the best for his team… and maybe spouts off his opinions too much. Go Suns! I love ya no matter what. You’ll always be MY team.

  • Nick

    “doesn’t happen to most west playoff contenders”….who the hell said they are playoff contenders?

    Anyone who believes they are, do yourself a favor and stop lying to yourself. This team is crap, the longer we stand pat the longer we’ll suck. A trade must happen, this team needs to be blown up. Nash isn’t part of the solution. A 37 year old, is never part of the solution.

  • shawn

    People keep saying trade Nash but they miss the one fact….HE WANTS TO BE HERE!!!

  • Mel.

    This conversation about Nash “securing his legacy with a ring” is really silly. It’s framing a guy whose entire career has been predicated on selflessness, guts and a lunchpail approach to the game as nothing more than another Gary Payton/Karl Malone case; a legendary talent who scrambles to a championship favorite in order to piggyback his way into a ring fitting.

    One, there’s no legitimate contender who has a need for a 37-year-old point guard, or who would be willing to give up a major building block in order to acquire one. Celtics, Spurs, Lakers, Heat, Knicks, Magic, Hawks, Bulls and OKC are the only franchises with any legitimacy this year, and none of them are going to give up anything substantial for Nash on a panic push.

    Two, Nash goes from being the most humble and moral icon in the NBA to having an asterisk alongside his name. In a dream world, he makes the jump to the Knicks for Felton and they make a legitimate push, only to be squashed by the Celtics in the Eastern brackets; how is that better than missing the playoffs altogether? There’s still going to be a lockout, which is going to burn time off of his career clock. The Heat, Magic and Celtics are still going to be superior teams next year, unless the Knicks magically snag ‘Melo (And hey, maybe Nash would wind up on the Nuggets as a result!), they aren’t winning a championship before Nash retires. Period.

    Lest I rant and rave on, the brass tacks point is this: there’s a nil-on chance that Nash goes to a legitimate title contender this year. Not saying he won’t be traded, but this “sainthood by Larry O’Brien baptism” gibberish that’s constantly being put out there by a frustrated fan culture is miles off-base.

  • Matt Manske

    ^^ So true Shawn and Mel. He says he wants to be in Phoenix. There aren’t any decent deals to be made before the deadline that would do mutual justice.

  • Zak

    Nash wants to stick with Phoenix no matter what. He isn’t ring chaser like another player I could mention but won’t. The fact that his trade value is almost nil at this stage in his career (and I don’t doubt that he’ll still be one hell of a player for 1-2 more years) so trading him will bring almost nothing to the Suns now. No one is going to trade away anyone they think has potential to be a future all-star for someone they think only has 1-2 years left in them. Steve may prove to have more than that left in him but no one is going to take that chance in a trade. Steve has given his all to the Suns and we should all be thankful to have had him here. He will eventually be given his rightful place in the HOF.

  • Kevin

    @ Zak

    Yeah, I suppose you’re pretty spot on about it being easier to rely on a consistent defense over an offense. But I never argued that. My only point in my long post was that it’s COMPLETELY nonsensical (in my own humble opinion) to say that those Suns and that style could never win the NBA championship.

    And the breaks they caught were pretty bad….such as losing Amare and his backup Diaw for that pivotal Game 5. The equivalent being the Spurs losing Duncan and his backup…you’re telling me the Spurs win in that scenario?

    I don’t mind management wanting to upgrade the defense and things like that…again I just want to point out that I think it’s wrong for people to think that they couldn’t have won it all. And their defense in those days weren’t terrible…if you looked at the defensive efficiency rankings you would see that they were actually middle of the pack in the league.

    And I understand the point you were trying to make…but a team of Dragic, Barbosa, Amundson, Dudley and JARRON COLLINS as the starting 5 would not do as well as this team. They would possibly be worse than the injury decimated and LeBron-less Cavs team this year. You’ve got a lot of hustle from those 5 collectively…but my god…having Amundson AND Collins as your front court literally means 5 points scored combined between the two of them at most.

  • Kevin

    About trading Nash…

    I’d love to see him stay here since he’s my favorite player and the Suns are my team but it just makes no sense whatsoever. They need to rebuild. It’s as simple as that…and he’s their most valuable asset.

    Nash’s legacy is “secure” with or without a ring…but let’s face it…his legacy does get enhanced with a championship ring. He definitely doesn’t NEED the ring to be considered as an all time great because he already is…but it sure as hell wouldn’t hurt. It would only help. It would be nice for him to not be grouped in with Barkley, Malone and others as greats who never won it all. I know him going to a real contender this year might be a pipe dream…but hey I’m gonna dream and hope for it anyways.

    And I wouldn’t compare him to someone like Payton who “piggybacked” to get a ring…Nash is still playing like an elite PG. He would definitely provide help to a team.

    And by no means am I saying these scenarios are likely (in fact they’re very unlikely) I’m just pointing this out to illustrate that Nash can go to a team that seems set up with a PG already yet still improve them. For example…if he went to the Thunder and they moved Westbrook over to SG…that team would be sick. Westbrook is more of a scoring PG anyways…that team could get up and down and they have some solid defenders too. The same scenario applies to Chicago with Rose I believe as well

  • Mel.

    ^Funny that you should use Barkley and Malone as examples, considering both of them jumped franchises in an effort to go with what were considered the surest bets to win a championship in their respective seasons.

    That they did so and neither the Rockets nor Lakers repeated/three-peated/four-peated is exactly the kind of poetic comeuppance that that sort of mentality deserves. Nash’s legacy will be just fine, even with the “Two MVPs and no Finals appearances” BS.

  • Kevin

    Like I said…I agree his legacy is fine and dandy as it is…but I wouldn’t mind seeing him get traded to a contender. I don’t understand how any true fan of Steve Nash wouldn’t want to see him win a ring.

    I understand that many (including myself) wouldn’t want him to win a ring under certain circumstances (washed up vet latching onto a team) but understand this…Nash isn’t jumping ship here and signing on with a surefire contender like Malone or Barkley…I’m asking for (hoping is more accurate) that he gets traded to a contender and he wins one. Big difference. He’s a difference maker still.

    Is anyone bashing Gasol as a champion because he got traded to the Lakers and won a couple? No because he helped Kobe…the same can hopefully happen with Nash.

  • Kevin

    And I understand that Memphis was fleeced in that trade…but pretty sure the Suns can get some real value if they traded Nash.

    Plus even if they didn’t get that much…they’re screwing themselves over more by keeping this team together. The longer this team stays together…the longer they’ll have to wait to put together a true championship caliber team.

  • Mike L

    So I haven’t sai anything but will now chime in. First off – I agree with those who have already said: NASH WANTS TO BE HERE. So why trade him unless you can’t get great picks/pieces in return?

    BUT for those of you who think other teams won’t trade for Nash THINK AGAIN! Remember what Boston did a few years ago? They traded the formerly untouchable Al Jefferson, a guy who the Suns reportedly could have had a number of yrs ago for Amare, to MINN for Garnett, signed Ray Allen, lucked into Rondo (thanks SARVER for that one). And won it all.

    The fact is that you have to build through the draft AND free agency to win championships. And trust me … ALL the GMs in this league know they can’t assure themselves of championships by “building for the future” when they could have that one remaining piece now thru free agency or trade. After all, who says your rivals aren’t going to make a killer move just when you’re homegrown team is coming of age? Just ask the Magic of a few yrs ago. They were on their way to multiple championships when Boston made those moves.

    So believe me, there are phones ringing in the Suns’ office as we speak from GMs around the league who know they are a Steve Nash away from the trophy. Mark my words fellow Suns and Nash fans!!!

  • YAYO

    Mel…sorry but what are you talking about?!? “Poetic comeuppance” for wanting to win a championship after YEARS of playing hard for your team…and when your team isn’t surrounding you with enough talent? That’s a logical move, not one that deserves any scorn.

    I know that I and many fellow Suns fans would have no problem seeing Steve chase one last chance at a ring.

    Also, I believe you forgot a few/mistakenly added a few franchises to your list of ones that have legitimacy this year.

  • yogi

    we should sign stanley robinson who plays for iowa energy. he is a very good player and can rebound and defend very well, but can create his own shot.but thats why we have Nash.

  • yogi

    sorry cannot create his own shot and well can play SF or PF. Orlando waived him and kept malik allen, cos SVG and malik are pals

  • yogi
  • Steve

    Nice to see you on VOTS, Stanley. How have you been?