Robin Lopez and Suns struggle to reach deal; Beasley too confident?

Posted by on July 24th, 10:57 am

The Phoenix Suns made it clear early this offseason that they’d make the re-signing of Robin Lopez some level of a priority, but Yahoo!’s Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting that the team and its backup center are struggling to reach a deal.

Wojnarowski tweeted on Tuesday that the Suns and their restricted free agent are far apart in their contract talks. Meanwhile, the New Orleans Hornets are interested in a sign-and-trade with the 7-footer, but those talks have not resulted in a deal either.

This whole ordeal could be a symptom of what the NBA sees year after year involving its most coveted, yet hard-to-find piece — the shot-blocking big. Ryan Weisert asserted in his NBA Skills Market post that these types of centers often get overpaid, and Lopez and his representation should expect no less. However, it could be hard to make a huge splash considering the disappointing season he just went through – Lopez didn’t even qualify for Weisert’s criteria for a rim protector of greater than 1.5 blocks per game, averaging just 0.9 blocks per contest in 14 minutes per outing.

Whereas JaVale McGee just signed a four-year, $44 million deal with the Denver Nuggets, Lopez is far from a decent rebounder for the center position, and his place behind starter Marcin Gortat makes it hard to believe the Suns will overpay him.

Michael Schwartz believes Lopez deserves no more than $4 million a year if Phoenix wants to stick with him, and that could be a fair deal for both sides.

It should be of note that, aside from the Hornets’ interest, no other NBA squad has gotten the restricted free agent to sign an offer sheet. Read that as the rest of the NBA market knowing that Lopez is a guy with too many question marks to risk overpaying for.

And that lack of interest could mean the Suns still could talk him down to a reasonable salary.

Beasley believes he’s an All-Star

Newly-signed Suns forward Michael Beasley told XTRA 910 that he’s confident that he’ll be an All-Star this season:

“I get a chance to not be the main guy but you know to be the go-to guy. Not just scoring but the go-to stopper and whatever my team needs, me to get a bucket or get a defensive stop, I feel good and confident that I can be that guy.” [...]“

Beasley isn’t exactly playing himself up to an insane degree. Eric Freeman is correct in that it’s frequent that guys in Beasley’s situation — both as a pro athlete and an interviewee — will throw out big goals for themselves. Then again, Beasley has been known to have a bit too much self worth.

As a less-than sixth man with Minnesota last season, there’s no doubt Beasley’s role in Phoenix is greatly increased. Maybe it’s a concern that he’s all of a sudden this team’s go-to scorer, but a guy who was capable of scoring 20 points in a game, albeit for a bad team, can score 20 points in a game.

The Suns didn’t have that last year.

Kevin Zimmerman is the lead blogger and editor for Valley of the Suns. He is also editor of, an Arizona Wildcats\’ blog, and a contributor at SB Nation and

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Tags: Michael Beasley · Phoenix Suns · Phoenix Suns News · Robin Lopez

114 responses so far ↓

  • 1 jeremiehawkins614 // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Let Lopez go he wasn’t doing anything anyway i understand he is more physical then Gortat but he cant rebound or score so good bye just get sumthing in return since the hornets want him so bad

  • 2 PennyAnd1 // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Suns should’ve thought about trading Lopez & Warrick or Frye & Warrick for a SG early on before signing Brown. Now they don’t know what to do with Lopez.

  • 3 Andres // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:35 am

    I’m surprised that our friends at are projecting the Suns to be either 14th or 15th in the West this season.

    I know we are not a top 4 seed team in the West but a starting lineup of Frye/Scola, Beasley, Gortat, Dragic and Dudley/Brown is not anywhere near a 14th or 15th seed either. Suns will prove people wrong once again on the projections like they have done in the past

  • 4 frenchysunsfan // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Trade Lopez, Frye or/and Warrick, a 1st round draft pick and money for Eric Gordon. Lopez isn’t 4 million $ per year worth so the Suns should get rid of him.

  • 5 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:41 am

    @ Kevin – If no one gives Lopez an offer sheet and no S&T deal with NO is made does that mean that Lopez just has to accept the Suns’ qualifying offer?

  • 6 John James // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:41 am

    I don’t think Beasley is being too confident. He has all the tools to be an allstar.

    He was clearly gravely misused by Rick Adelman last season for whatever reason. He’s not going to have that problem on this team. No reason why he can’t be the best he’s ever been.

    Look at how terrible Kevin Love looks on Team USA and look how “great” he looked playing for his friend’s father – Rick Adelman last season. Coaches having confidence in you goes a long way in today’s NBA.

    Beasley will be more than fine.

  • 7 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:44 am


    they cant trade for gordon ….

  • 8 frenchysunsfan // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:51 am

    @ Greg

    Even if there is another team involved in the trade ?
    Thanks in advance for your answer.

  • 9 grover // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I hope Beasely is right and does become an all star, but I doubt it. He has the physical tools to get there, but had never shown the mental discipline to apply himself and get there. Going on a radio show an announcing you don’t smoke weed anymore is not quite the same thing as proving you understand what it means to be a pro.

  • 10 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Im sorry, this suns roster is bad and expensive. Bad combination. They are stuck with all the bad contracts for at least 3 years. Bad time to be a suns fan.

  • 11 bk // Jul 24, 2012 at 11:59 am

    That’s the only upside of the Eric Gordon mess. Hornets have spent $2M more on Gordon. It means they are $2M short on Lopez. haha…

  • 12 Tim in BC // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    I have always kind of liked Lopez (especially his hair!) but he has not come back since his impressive season a couple of years ago. He is so inconsistent with his shots and blocking and the only time he seems really good is when he gets mad (maybe somone on the team needs to get him ticked off before the game to motivate him?!) I think a start on a new team might make him better and hopefully help the Suns in the process.

  • 13 Shane // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    @Reter Another troll… LOL

  • 14 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    @ frenchysunsfan – Gordon can NOT be traded to the Suns for at least one year even in a multi-team trade.

  • 15 frenchysunsfan // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    @ Ty-Sun

    Ok thanks for the information.

  • 16 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    @Reter – I think that depends on how you define “bad.”

    If “bad” means “they don’t have a shot at winning the championship,” then I’d say you’re right (but there are 28 other “bad” teams in the NBA, in that case).

    If “bad” means they’re only going to win 25 games, I think you’re wrong. In my opinion, this team will be flirting with .500 all season. If that’s “bad,” then I agree with you.

  • 17 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Look it up Shane. Your roster is full of overpayed mediocre to below average talent. You have no cap flexibility and will suck for years to come, sorry. I’m not trolling I’m saying it how it is. If you would look at it objectively you would agree.

  • 18 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    @Ty-Sun & frenchysunsfan

    “Gordon [cannot] be traded to the Suns for at least one year even in a multi-team trade.”

    I don’t think that’s entirely correct. My understanding of the RFA rules is that Eric Gordon can’t wear a Phoenix Suns uniform under any circumstances for the duration of his current 4-year, $58M deal.

    The one-year rule, according to my understanding, is for the other 30 teams.

  • 19 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    haha what? who is this guy?

    whats overpayed? we might have some guys that are overpaid, not sure what overpayed is…. and we do have some cap flexibility, nearly 10-11 million dollars next season lol, thats more then most teams….

    Frye and Warrick are only players “overpayed”

    Gortat is vastly “underpayed” and Goran and Beasley’s contracts are both great values, as is Scolas and Shannon Browns. Morris and Marshall are under rookie deals….Telfair make like 1.5 mil…..dudley is on a wonderful deal, only 4+ million a year….

    so where is our roster filled with over”paid” mediocre players??

    you are an idiot get out of here

  • 20 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:25 pm


    It’s steve. Not sure how that name was too difficult, but whatever.

    If you look at it “objectively,” the 2012-13 Suns will have about 40 win shares if each player on the roster earns win shares at the same rate as last season. Win shares equate to actual wins +/- 5%. That means the Suns, as constructed, should win 38-42 games in 2012-13…

    If you look at things objectively, that is.

  • 21 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    lets not waste our time Steve, he is one of the least intelligent basketball fans ive ever seen and i only had to read 3 sentences.

  • 22 Jenks D. // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Hey, if we cant work-out a deal with Lopez, why not do a sign and trade with NO that goes….

    Lopez, Shannon Brown, and a future 1st rnd
    Eric Gordon

  • 23 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    @steve I think it will be a struggle to win even 25 games. This roster reminds me of Detroit of 3 years ago. Overpayed and bad. It will take some magic for the suns to climb out of this hole in less than 3 years.

  • 24 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    we cant trade for GORDON…jeez how many times does it need to be said on here

  • 25 Jenks D. // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Oh, crap….I just finished reading the rest of the comments….sorry haha

  • 26 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    lol ok, glad you noticed, sorry for snapping lol

  • 27 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:29 pm


    Overpayed isnt a word you idiot

    and whos our overpaid guys??? other then Frye and Warrick…..find me one.

  • 28 Shane // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Just ignore Reter, he is another useless troll who seeks attention. LOL

  • 29 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Lol, other than Warrick’s contract, I don’t believe the Suns have any “bad” contracts anymore (although it could be argued that Frye’s contract is also “bad” but it’s not terrible IMO). The Suns will still have good salary cap flexibility next year and will at the very least have a very good – and young – core to build on.

  • 30 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    I was talking to Shane. I got the name right, Steve

  • 31 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Beasley=potential to be a stud
    Scola=ice cream man
    Gortat=polish hammer

    enough said..

  • 32 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:32 pm


    but you still cant get the word overpayed right.

  • 33 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    “@steve I think it will be a struggle to win even 25 games. This roster reminds me of Detroit of 3 years ago.”

    Oh, so when you said, “if you would look at it OBjectively,” in your first reply to me, you actually meant, “if you would look at it SUBjectively.”

    I understand now.

  • 34 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    This sight is full of homers. I’m not the only one to project the suns to finish worst in the west. Most people are except of course bias suns fans.

  • 35 Andres // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    I agree with Steve that this team will be flirting with .500 all season
    BUT if things go their way I wont be surprised if we end up winning 50 games.
    Its funny to see that last year people said the Suns were too old and now we’re just a 14th-15th seed team.

  • 36 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:35 pm


    “Most people are [projecting the Suns to finish worst in the West].”


  • 37 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    lol go look at the teams in the west from 10-11 who struggled to get 25 wins and compare the rosters. then come back here and admit you are an idiot.

    i am a realist not an optimist and the Suns should have no problem winning 35 games

  • 38 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Andres already provided one source for ya

  • 39 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    @ Andres, lets not get ahead of ourselves, 50 wins is not really likley or possible in my opinion. not the first year after Nash anyway. A year of Goran and Beasley growing together, in 2-3 years 50 wins could be an expectation. 50 games would be a big big surprise.

  • 40 Reterisretarder // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Reter is a complete and utter moron, he is probably a glory hunting laker, heat or OCK fan.

  • 41 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Worst in the West?!? That’s a laugh… thanks for that, Reter. I needed a good laugh today! :)

  • 42 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    This is sad. When you finish with about 20 wins what will you say?

  • 43 Shane // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Guys just ignore Reter, all he wants is attention.

    Dumb troll.

  • 44 John // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    @Reter Your pathetic. When the suns finish with 36-42 wins what will you say?

  • 45 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    at the all star break when we have 20 wins i will hit you up

  • 46 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Just listen to hornet247s recent podcast. They reiterate everything I have said today.

  • 47 Gabriel // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    @reter LOL What a moron.

  • 48 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:47 pm


    After losing Steve Nash, one of the best point guards in the league, the Suns replace him with a fast, young, athletic point guard that had a higher PER then Nash during his 2 months of starting…this downgrade will be about 10 wins worth…

    Also, the Suns lost an aging Grant Hill. He was their best perimeter defender, and struggled to score 10 a night. They added a 23 year old with tons of upside that has proven he can score 20 a game….also a move reducing the suns another 5 wins.

    Luis Scola, one of the most effective low post players in the game and one of its most fierce competitors was picked up for 4.5 million a season….an awful move!

    Yea the Suns are gonna struggle to win 20….

  • 49 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    I’m out. Remember me. I’ll come back later in the season to rub it in your face.

  • 50 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    LOL! Please keep it up, Reter! I LMAO whenever I read one of your posts. It takes real talent to act THAT stupid! You should consider a career in stand-up! Or maybe even the movies… I hear that they are considering make another “Dumb And Dumber” squeal. You could be a star!

  • 51 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    a podcast….lol really? didnt know joe schmos doing podcast, and probably have limited knowledge of the nba outside of the Hornets, was the best source in the world….

  • 52 Jeremy // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    @Reter When the suns win more than 35 games and prove you wrong then you better come back to apologize.

  • 53 Zack B. // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Greg is completely right. The only overpaid players we have are Frye and Warrick. And no, Beasley is not being too confident, he knows his potential, and so does Norm Nixon. Next year it will be hard with Rudy Gay almost becoming a lock for the backup Small Forward spot, so I doubt he’ll make it unless he completely breaks out. Definitely will make it within his career however. We’ll most likely be a 6-8th seed, best case scenario, First Round upset, we lose after that.

  • 54 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Actually, the Hornets are more likely to finish with 20 wins than the Suns. They have a lot of young but untested talent. Trying to make a point guard out of Rivers could be a disaster. I’m actually glad that the Suns lost out on Gordon because all he does is score… defense? I’m sure he only thinks that is something that surrounds your property…

  • 55 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Gordon=Stud if Healthy
    Anderson=good but not as good without Dwight sucking defenders in off 3 PT line….

    Conclusion: Suns>Hornets

  • 56 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    an for the record Ty-sun Gordon’s defense is slightly suspect because of his height, but he is very strong, pretty quick, and very active on the defensive end. we would have been lucky to have a player of his scoring ability and ability to get to the free throw line. we still dont have that ability on this team outside of Goran, which could be a problem

  • 57 Banloo // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Lmao, suns fans are so delusional.

  • 58 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    lol….35 wins is delusional?

  • 59 DavidA // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Beasley is a grease fire. If you are putting your bets on him, then you will be disappointed. He’s a black hole on offense, plays zero defense and is a headcase. He may be the most inefficient player in the league offensively, considering his (usually self imposed, btw) usage rate. Minnesota couldn’t give him away in a trade last year, and ended up not even tendering him a QO. Miami basically gave him away 2 years ago. You can blame Adelman, but Pat Riley was coaching him in Miami. Him having a multi-year deal is overpaying, IMO.

    Dragic is a very good player, slightly overpaid. Gortat is an above average center, and is slightly underpaid. These are, without question, your best two players.

    Scola is a solid player coming off the bench at this point in his career, but his already limited and declining athleticism make him a liability on defense. Not to mention he plays the same position as Beasly, who is a PF no matter how much he wants to be a “3.” So you have two PF starting who can’t play defense for different reasons: One wants to but physically can’t do it and the other can physically do it but is to lazy to want to.

    Dudley’s a good player on a great contract, but he’s better served coming off the bench and his best position is the 3. He’s playing out of position to make room for Beasley, who is also playing out of position. Shannon Brown is the best SG on the team, and he’s on the books for 2 years. That’s not good. Who is your wing defender? I don’t see one?

    Basically I see a roster full of mis-matched players playing out of position and a starting lineup with 4 well-below average defenders (Dudley, Beasley, Dragic, Scola) and a mismash of average vets coming off the bench. The biggest problem with this roster is there are no really good players on rookie contracts. Average to slightly above average players making mid-level type money w/ no young rookie contracts or draft picks available is a perfect way to end up stuck in NBA purgatory. Just my opinion…

  • 60 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    did Reter come back and change his name to Banloo?

  • 61 Andres // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Btw did someone notice that Marshall had15 pts, 10 assists and 3 TO during the last Summer league game? Pretty good improvement compared to his previous games. He even hit 2 three pointers in the Suns win against Memphis!

  • 62 Reter // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Yes more like 22

  • 63 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    And I honestly like Beasley’s confidence! This is the first team he’s ever been on that is looking at him as the #1 scoring option. Under those circumstances he could reach all-star status. True he will never be an all-star defender but he could be an all-star caliber scorer.

  • 64 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Gortat was top 5 center in the league… If javale mcgee makes 11 million a season Gortat is very underpaid.

    If Goran averages 16.5 +/- with 8 +/- assist, 7.5 million is a great deal for him too

    Beasley’s only horribly efficient year, and it wasnt that bad, was last year. If he comes in here and scores anywhere from 15-20 a game, 6 million is not bad deal, even for multiple years.

    Scola is still a starter in this league on alot of teams.and scola has never had athleticism, it is not declining. his game has nothing to do with being an athlete. i dont think his feet come off the ground when he scores. Scola is a decent post defender too, he cant “not play” defense.

    If Dudley gets his minutes at the 3 he is not well below average

    dragic is a good defender, stole almost 2 balls a game his last two months starting

    Scola is a decent post defender and hes very physical

    Beasley is not a good defender.

    Markief Morris has the chance to be pretty decent, hes on a rookie deal…. and the suns have 10 picks in next 3 seasons…

    everything you said, with a few decent points sprinkled in, is completely false @ David

  • 65 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    horribly inefficient**

  • 66 Lloyd I. Cadle // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    The Suns have a lot of young talent with good potential. The potential means that they also have a lot of question marks. If the young talent plays up to their potential, they could challenge for the 7th or 8th seed. If not, they might only win 30 games.

    A big factor might be the early schedule. If it starts out easy it will allow Gentry some time to fit in the pieces.

  • 67 Jeremy A // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Figures that Reter guy is a hornets fan. Go back to your hornet’s blog

  • 68 Scott // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    NO has no surplus assets to trade for Lopez, unless it’s picks. But I doubt that’s it. I bet their offer is something really weak, like a trade exception. Rah.

    I’d rather wait for someone else to come up with an offer, or – as I’ve mentioned before – try to see if Houston needs another C for a deal, or wait till Leonard gets injured and see if Portland wants to trade (not saying Leonard is fragile, but the Blazers have had tons of injuries in recent years).

  • 69 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    curse of the portland big men.

    speaking of. get rid of lopez. sign Oden.

  • 70 Scott // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    @Andres -

    Yes, Marshall’s performance in the final game of SL was night and day with his other games.

    It made a huge difference when he started to score. If he can keep that up, the next step is to improve his rebounding numbers ala Kidd. And he knows it, so that’s good. :)

  • 71 Scott // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    People here keep talking about Oden, but isn’t he taking the whole ’12-’13 season off to fully recover and re-evaluate, to see if he can ever play?

    He just had his **3RD** microfracture surgery in Feb.

  • 72 sun also rises // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Reter = Phony Tony Incognito

    Stay tuned for upcoming threads when Tony suddenly appears in a cloud of fairy dust and does a happy dance that “someone” “agrees with him”.

  • 73 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    his agent recently said he still wants to play, this season perferably

  • 74 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    “(Oden) called me, and he was kind of excited,” Conley said in a phone interview with FOX Sports Florida. “I think he’s motivated …. He wants to play. He had said he wanted to take this season off, but he’s backed off from that …. He’s open to playing this season. I think he will play this season.”

    from his agent Mike Conley

  • 75 Russell // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    @Reter why are you trolling?

  • 76 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Wow! I guess Tuesday has suddenly become “troll night” at the VOTS. Good to know. There is nothing good on TV tonight so at least I know that I can come here for some laughs on Tuesdays.

  • 77 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    There’s no use getting mad/upset at these trolls. That’s what they want. I see them for what they are and just laugh at their attempts to piss us off. What pathetic fools they are! We should all be laughing our asses off at them! That’s the ONLY thing that they deserve. They all amuse me endlessly. Anyone who has nothing better to do than come to another team’s site and post nasty comments is a pathetic human being! Trolls aren’t worth the effort to respond to. Just enjoy their idiotic ramblings and have a good laugh at their expense as I do. They are humorous if you can look at their post objectively. They have no basis in reality. They are made only to try to piss people off. Only idiots think that is funny, we should just accept them as such and have a good laugh at the stupid things that they say.

    Go Suns!

  • 78 Andres // Jul 24, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Could we trade Robin Lopez to NO for a 1st round pick? I wouldn’t mind if we make such a trade

  • 79 Shane // Jul 24, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    @Ty-Sun Amen to that!

    Go Suns!

  • 80 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 2:40 pm


    come on now, is it really that necessary to insult people because they happen to disagree? It’s not as if your perspective is any more reasonable than Reter’s. I mean you consistently over-hype Beasley when he’s only had one good season. Also, so what if he averages 20ppg, if it takes him 20 shots to get there, and if he allows his man to score 25ppg, then his 20 points doesn’t negate his poor efficiency and poor defense. Furthermore, Beasley’s deal is very risky as he could easily turn out to being overpaid in a manner similar to Childress if he plays like he has the past couple seasons.

    As far as Dragic is concerned, he only played a whopping 28 games as a starter for Houston and as such, he is still largely unproven as a starting pg. We all have to remember that sometimes, when opposing teams don’t scout out particular players or otherwise pay close attention to them, that these players are able to thrive at that point. But when teams start emphasizing their defensive schemes against them, some of these players fade back into the players they were before their sudden outburst. For example, Jeremy Lin exemplifies this type of player. A guy coming out of nowhere, whom nobody expects to do anything and is thus not at all the focal-point of opposing teams’ defensive-schemes, and then, after his sudden emergence and subsequent adjustment in focus by opposing teams, he recedes backward. Personally, I think Dragic is a better player than Lin and won’t have quite as difficult a time adjusting to being a focal-point of opposing teams, but I don’t expect him to be near the player he was with Houston in those 28 games.

    This question is addressed to all the Suns-homers on VOTS, so I would welcome a response from anyone fitting this category; why do you guys get so defensive when other more objective Suns fans are not so quick to jump on this train of largely unwarranted optimism? Objectively speaking, there’s no reason to believe Beasley will suddenly put his past two seasons behind him, in which he played for better coaches than Gentry, and all of a sudden reemerge as an all star. For anyone to argue to the contrary exemplifies unreasonable optimism that is no less defensible than arguing that the Suns will have the worst record in the western conference. Or to argue that the Suns will even attain an 8th seed in the west also borders on extreme optimism when considering the teams they would have to surpass to get there are all more talented and have played together longer than this current Suns roster.

    So instead of resorting to irrational and emotion-filled personal insults, why not instead try to remain at least somewhat objective and remember that Beasley couldn’t even stay in the Timberwolves rotation last season, or that Dragic excelled as a starter for only 28 games and wasn’t anywhere near the focal-point of opposing teams’ defensive priority, or that although Morris had a great point per game average, his poor shooting percentage largely negates this, especially considering since he had such a difficult time in being an efficient scorer against summer league competition, how likely is it that he will become anymore efficient playing against bigger NBA-quality competition?

  • 81 Shane // Jul 24, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    It has been confirmed, Reter and Tony are the same person. LOL

  • 82 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    Forgive me guys, I am a complete moron seeking a lot of attention.

  • 83 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:01 pm


  • 84 DBreezy // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    I don’t agree with those predictions over at the Hornets blog nor those here that have the Suns in the 5-7 seed at this point. You gotta love the logic of some of those guys with their 3 year predictions though. If the Suns finish last or 2nd to last in the West for the next 3 seasons, they’d have a lot of top 5 picks in that span and quite possibly a number 1 in addition to the extra picks they got in the Nash deal and probable picks to come from dumping Hak, Telfair and maybe R.Lo. Hard to see them being that bad with all of that, but then again I don’t see the point of predicting conference standings 3 years out in the first place.

  • 85 Michael // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Reter is retarded! Enough said! Go SUNS! F*** retarded morons!

  • 86 james // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Three way trade : suns give N.O Lopez N.O gives Orlando Davis
    Orlando then trades howards right to Suns.. if the Suns have to throw in their picks so be it.. Suns diffidently dont need to cry about them matching Gordon that be bad business figure something out to where all parties are happy.. I would diffidently like Howard in Phoenix he could take the confidence this team all ready go to new levels and he be good asset to the young plAyers.. Not giving my hope up though..

  • 87 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:40 pm


    thanks for clarifying what a bunch of childish losers some of you people truly are. What’s more pathetic is that some of you are on par with Lakers fans.

    What happened to VOTS? Although there were always disagreements, at least the majority of them were reasonable and not based on insulting others or pretending to be other people. Now these losers are corrupting VOTS with their immature and pathetic comments and turning our beloved site into a joke.

  • 88 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    “Objectively speaking”

    You usually want no part in objectivity whatsoever. I’m surprised to read that word coming from you.

    If you want to be “objective” about the Suns’ upcoming season, please explain how you arrived at your total win predictions, and explain why it’s so much more reliable than looking at each player’s win share total from the previous season (which has proven to be remarkably reliable when reviewing history).

    You’ve said this Suns team will finish 13th-15th in the West and I believe you said they would struggle to reach 30 wins. How did you “objectively” reach those conclusions?

  • 89 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Btw, my last post, #88, was directed @Tony.

    And it’s an honest question. If you can show you have “objectivity” behind your predictions, I’ll be fine with that. There’s more than one way to look into a crystal ball. My guess is that you’ll just show me how phony your last post was calling out all the “homers.”

  • 90 cha cha cha // Jul 24, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    not for nothing, but i think, barring injury, seeds 1-5 are going to go to the Thunder, Spurs, Lakers, Clippers, and Griz again (not necessarily in that order). Of the remaining 3 spots, Dallas will probably get one, leaving 2 spots up for grabs.

  • 91 bk // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    Suns should match whatever hornets offers on Lopez unless they trade him with hornets first round pick.

  • 92 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Sorry again guys, I know I write a lot of nonsense but I can’t help it because the truth is I am a moron.

    Also to confirm yes me and reter are the same dumb person, It was a pathetic attempt to troll, sorry.

  • 93 cha cha cha // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    i’d swap Lopez and a Lakers 1st rd pick for Xavier Henry and the Hornets 1st round pick, unprotected.

  • 94 cha cha cha // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    you get cap space, a higher draft pick, and a backup sg in one fell swoop.

  • 95 Mac // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Hey! Hornets fan here. I just want to know a couple things.

    1) What did yall the fans want for an EJ (Eric Gordon) trade? (We, well I, wanted Marshall, Gortat, and unprotected first rounder. Actually kinda fair in my opinion.)

    2) What do yall want for ROLO? (We would give Xavier Henry, pretty good besides last summer league, and an unprotected 2nd rounder.)

    3) Honestly yall think the Suns will be better than the Hornets?

    Yall wont be last, haha @Reter, but we will be better. Gordon, Anderson, Aminu, Davis, Miller, Rivers, Smith, EVERYONE! We definantly look great moving forward.

  • 96 cha cha cha // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    “but we will be better.”

    hopefully your front office thinks so too and puts its money where its mouth is, and includes the 2013 1st rounder, unprotected. also, Miller’s retiring.

  • 97 Shane // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Hey there Mac, well here goes:

    1) For EG I think a fair trade would have been Marshall, Lopez and a top 5 protected first round pick.

    2)Honestly I think the Suns would only be interested trading ROLO to you guys for at least a protected first round pick.

    3)I think it is a little to early to tell who will be better out of the Suns or Hornets but I do think that both teams will do much better than what is expected of them.

  • 98 Shane // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    The latest tweets on ROLO situation:

    Adrian Wojnarowsk@WojYahooNBA

    Hornets, Suns, Wolves are nearing agreement on a 3-way deal that would send Robin Lopez to the Hornets in a sign-and-trade, sources tell Y!

    Adrian Wojnarowski@WojYahooNBA

    Along with Lopez, Suns would send Hakim Warrick to Hornets. Minny would send Wesley Johnson and a 1st round pick to the Suns, sources say.

  • 99 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    Lighten up just a little, Tony. Everyone who is anyone here at VOTS KNOWS someone hijacked your name to make those posts.

  • 100 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:07 pm


    1. Gortat and Gordon are near equal value, despite what the salaries show. Any deal including Gortat wouldn’t have worked because the additional parts the Suns would have to throw into the trade to match salaries would create an imbalance. A S&T wasn’t going to work with NO because both teams only have one tradeable asset, and those two assets have very different price tags. If a S&T was to go down, and I was in the Suns FO, I would have made an offer including Dudley, Lopez/Frye, and a top-5 protected first rounder (assuming the money would work out – I think it would be close).

    2. For Rolo? Picks. That’s all I would want. The only type of current player Rolo is going to yield is garbage. The Suns would be best served by turning Rolo into a fresh start.

    3. It’s extremely difficult to predict how the Hornets will do next year because so much of their success depends on two players who haven’t played a second in the NBA. If Davis is a GREAT rookie, he’ll be good for somewhere around 6 wins, which would be a 5-game improvement. If Rivers turns out great, he could be a three-game swing. If Gordon rebounds and plays a full, healthy season, he could be provide another 3 to 5 wins above his replacement… but even if all three of those guys pan out very well, you’re talking about a 12-game swing. That would put the Hornets slightly under .500, which is right where I expect the Suns to be when all is said and done in ’12-’13.

    If I had to put money on it, I’d bet on the Suns being better than the Hornets. The players the Suns are depending on are more proven. Gortat, Dragic, and Dudley have all shown enough consistency to make me believe they’re worth a combined 18-20 wins. Getting the rest of the roster to fill in another 20 shouldn’t be that difficult. I think the Hornets would be fortunate to win 40 this year.

  • 101 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:12 pm


    firstly, I never suggested that the Suns will struggle to win 30 games. I said 35 games will most likely be their ceiling.

    As far being objective, I’m simply taking many factors into consideration in addition to statistics, such as chemistry and leadership, both of which you consistently under-value. None of the new additions, with the exception of Scola, have ever played even an entire season as starters. Over the past two seasons, Beasley has been one of the least efficient players in the league and a below average PER rating. Dragic had a phenomenol 28-game stretch with the Rockets, but looking at the totality of his NBA career up until this point, he’s shown himself to be an extremely inconsistent player. So, why is it unrealistic or otherwise improbable to expect him to continue his pattern of inconsistency? He might have matured enough or improved his game to such a degree as to increase his consistency level, but at this point, we don’t have enough of a sample size to draw a definitive conclusion about how well he will perform as a starter over an 82-game schedule.
    Furthermore, when you consider that the Suns probable starting lineup this coming season will feature 3-new players, Dragic, Beasley, and possibly Scola, I have no doubt that the lack of team chemistry will hurt them at least until the first 20-25 games of the season. At this elite level, team chemistry is imperative to achieve success. I don’t know the exact specifics, but other than the Rockets, how many other teams in the western conference will feature so many new additions in their starting lineups? I may be mistaken but I think the Suns will feature more than most and as such, while other teams’ have established chemistry and players are comfortable in their roles, the Suns starting lineup will be lacking in that capacity.
    Moreover, the lack of veteran leadership will also be detrimental to the Suns success. Scola’s transition period in fully adjusting and becoming comfortable with the team and Gentry’s expectations will likely preclude him from taking such a role despite his experience in the NBA.

    Lastly, unlike other professional leagues, having star players is an absolutely critical factor in guaging how well a team will do. Now, since the expectations for the Suns are non-playoff team, it’s not as if they have too difficult a ceiling to go beyond those expectations. With that being said, the lack of a true “star” player will also limit the success of this team. Dragic and Gortat, probably the two best Suns players, are good players but hardly qualify as elite ones. So who on the team will command the respect of his teammates, the coaching staff, and even the referrees, to elevate this team to a status beyond that of a team with a bunch of nice pretty good players, to one of which commands the respect of the rest of the league, all the way to favorable officiating?

    @Sun Also Loser,

    stop pretending to be me. You are such a pathetic loser. I’m just curious, how old are you? I sincerely hope you are no older than 13, otherwise you should really be ashamed of yourself for being such a loser. You should enlist in the miltary to help you grow out of your childish demeanor. I’ve personally seen losers such as yourself be transformed into mature and respectable citizens just by going through basic and AIT training.

  • 102 cha cha cha // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    SI’s 2 cents:
    “Hakim Warrick and Wesley Johnson — two former Syracuse Orangemen — have not met with much success in the NBA, hence the first-round pick obtained by the Suns could turn out to be the most valuable piece of this trade.”

  • 103 Davida // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    Gortat is only equal to Gordon if he’s injured half the year. If Gordon is healthy, he’s twice the player Gortat is.

  • 104 Ty-Sun // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    @Mac – Yes I think the Suns will be better than the Hornets NEXT season. After that, who knows. Davis will be a monster player but he will still be a rookie next year and prone to rookie mistakes. As for Rivers, I’m glad he’s with NO instead of Phoenix. Too many “ifs” about him. I think he will struggle initially but may be able to overcome that and adapt to the NBA. He also has to adapt to becoming a PG instead of a SG which will make his 1st season a tough one. I can honestly say that the Hornets could beat the Heat by 20 points one night and then loose to the Bobcats by 20 the next. You guys just are going to have a very young team with a LOT of potential that will probably create a lot of inconsistent play next year. 2-3 years from now, watch out!

    As for Eric Gordon, there is no way the Suns and Hornets can make that trade according to the CBA rule so it’s no use even talking about it.

    As to a trade for Rolo, it will take more than Xavier Henry and a 2nd round pick to get him. Xavier Henry is NOT someone we want even if you were willing to give a 1st round UNprotected pick with him… well maybe if it was next year’s draft pick. But I think he’s still worth more than that.

  • 105 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    That’s a horrible deal if that goes through. Wesley Johnson???? You don’t give up athletic bigs for less than mediocre sgs. This was what I was afraid of from the FO when they brought in Scola. Is Frye even going to be ready to play by the time the season starts? Until he comes back, who will be the backup center? This is a horrible deal if it comes to fruition.

  • 106 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    Nevermind what I said, Wesley Johnson is a team option for next season so it is basically ROLO + Warrick’s expiring contract for Wesley’s expiring contract + 1 first round draft pick. Good job Suns FO!

  • 107 Scott // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    Why in the world would the Suns want YET ANOTHER bad player from one of the worst teams the league has seen?

    Name 3 players who were on Minnesota’s team during their worst year. Hmm … Beasley, Telfair, and Wes Johnson?

    Johnson has a PER of 8. For all practical purposes, that’s about as low as you can go.

    If this rumor is for real, then Blanks is going way overboard. You can’t pick up lead, brush it off, and expect to find gold. At best you get shiny lead.

  • 108 cha cha cha // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    ostensibly, they’re swapping Warrick, who’s on the books for 2 years, for Johnson, who’s on the books for 1 year, then there’s a team option. plus, they’re getting a 1st round pick for Lopez.

  • 109 cha cha cha // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    i believe Telfair was gone before Johnson got there.

  • 110 steve // Jul 24, 2012 at 5:55 pm


    So… subjective reasoning is your basis. That’s all you needed to say.

    Until you come up with way to quantify “chemistry” and “leadership,” it will fall under the “subjective” category.

    Good thoughts, though. I’m not trying to say your points aren’t valid. I just asked for objectivity, and it wasn’t really there.

    @Davida – A PER of 21.5 and nightly averages of 15/10 beg to differ. Gortat is a high-quality player in the NBA. Not an All-NBA caliber guy… but then again, Gordon hasn’t made an All-Star or All-NBA appearance yet, either, and his highest full-season PER was 18.5. I would give Gordon the slight edge based on his ceiling and his position (a *great* 2 is extremely hard to come by, and Gordon might turn into a great 2), but Gordon isn’t far and away the better player. In fact, statistically, to this point in their careers, Gortat has been better.

    Either way, It’s just foolish to think Gordon is “twice” the player Gortat is, but I know you’re not going to care about reason, logic, numbers, or anything that actually matters.

  • 111 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    Lopez wanted more money then suns wanted to give…nothing wrong with sign and trade. basically its warrick for a first round pick and wesley johnson, who atleast gives us length (6-7) when hes on the court, something we dont have much of on the wings….johnson isnt good but warrick for a pick and Johnson? whats wrong with it?

  • 112 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 7:02 pm


    I agree that factors such as leadership and chemistry are dificult to qualify as objective, but what is objective is that teams with chemistry and leadership almost always do better than those without. With that being said, looking at the career numbers of all the new players, none of which stand out as exceptional. Again, Dragic has been highly erratic and a mere 28-game great stretch should not surpass his entire body of work as an NBA player. Beasley’s last two seasons have been horrible, as indicated by his statistics. Scola is a very good pickup, but even he had a poor season last year, considering how well he’s played throughout most of his NBA career. I know you’re the master statistician on VOTS, but reflecting on the aggregate of their NBA careers, statistically indicates neither Dragic or Beasley are much beyond pretty good caliber players.

  • 113 Greg // Jul 24, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    @ tony

    pretty good post little while ago, made some good points.

    only thing i wanted to touch on was Goran’s inconsistency.

    Its fair and safe to say the reason for Goran’s inconsistency was due to a variety of factors.
    Inconsistent minutes, lack of confidence, lack of experience. At 26, the Euro age curve has ended and Goran has all the physical tools. Gentry and Goran have great relationship, so he will git the ground running, considering he is familiar with the system already and he has the coaching staffs confidence.

    With big minutes, and the big time abilities he has shown, i have no fear that dragic will perform poorly. I think he is going to elevate his game and play in the top 3rd of NBA point guards.

    you never know, @ tony, but its fair to say the reasons i listed are probably big factors in his inconsistency.

  • 114 Tony // Jul 24, 2012 at 8:16 pm


    I definitely agree, you make a good argument about the root cause of Dragic’s inconsistencies. There’s definitely a lot to be said for the typically necessary integration process of foreign players adjusting to life in the U.S. and in playing in the NBA. His relationship with Gentry should make Dragic more secure in his starting role and thus, should lead him to play with more confidence. So, good points all around and I definitely agree that the above-mentioned factors you listed were a critical factor in Dragic’s inconsistencies.

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