Short NBA season helps Phoenix Suns

Posted by on November 29th, 8:23 pm

Steve Nash will benefit from the NBA's 66-game season.

No one wanted a shortened season. Not the players, not the owners, not the fans, not even David Stern.

In an ideal world, those 149 days that made up the NBA lockout would have been filled with free agent signings, trade rumors, training camp, and eventually, basketball that actually counts.

The players, owners and league employees would have raked in 82 games full of revenue, and the NBA world would continue to turn as planned. But while a full season was the goal, the 66-game CliffsNotes version could actually help some teams.

Enter the 2011-12 Phoenix Suns.

The Suns are expecting to bring back every member of their 2010-11 team aside from Vince Carter and possibly Aaron Brooks, who’s stuck in China.

Alvin Gentry’s group will already have an established chemistry — something that’s characterized great Suns teams during the Steve Nash Era. Roles, rotations and expectations are already defined after Gentry spent last season exhausting lineup after lineup.

Marcin Gortat is the unquestioned starting center. Steve Nash and Grant Hill are the clear cut leaders. Jared Dudley is most likely the Suns’ new starting shooting guard. Channing Frye is still a floor spacer with an improved interior presence.

The rest of the Phoenix role players know where to fill in the gaps, and guys like Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick and Mickael Pietrus understand how they contribute best.

Sure, bringing back a roster that went 40-42 a year ago doesn’t hold much value heading into an 82-game season where every team has a full training camp and free agent period to address its needs.

But in a short season where a handful of teams will struggle to even fill a roster in time for Christmas Day, the Suns’ advantage is significant.

The Atlanta Hawks, Boston Celtics, Dallas Mavericks, New Jersey Nets, New Orleans Hornets, Indiana Pacers, Miami Heat, New York Knicks, and Utah Jazz all have five or more unrestricted free agents to re-sign or replace.

Teams like the Nuggets lost their best players — J.R. Smith, Kenyon Martin and Wilson Chandler — to the land of no return, China. The Suns, on the other hand, don’t have to rush to fill a roster. One season after playing through a pair of midseason trades, the Suns finally have stability.

This Phoenix team knows its personnel inside out, and save a relatively cheap shooting guard/point guard/big man, Markieff Morris will be the only new face in Phoenix this season.

So while a handful of teams shuffle through different free agents and lineup combinations, the Suns know what they have and can get down to Xs and Os, rather than worry about who will fill out the roster.

While the shortened season gives the Suns a monumental advantage in the chemistry department, it’s even more beneficial for the Suns’ elder statesmen – Steve Nash and Grant Hill.

Yes it can be argued that playing more back-to-backs will hurt the Suns’ leaders, but Nash and Hill haven’t played an NBA game in almost eight months.

They’re well rested and more inclined to make it through a 66-game season unscathed than an 82-game season. The 37-year-old Nash has proven that his body breaks down late in the season, as his numbers and the Suns’ win total took a major hit down the stretch last year.

When Nash was battling pelvic instability in the final months of the season, Phoenix turned in an 8-13 record and Nash averaged only 10.0 points, 11.6 assists, 40.6 percent shooting and 35.8 percent shooting from three-point land.

In contrast, Nash averaged 16.8 points, 11.3 assists, 52.3 percent shooting and 40.8 percent from three over the course of the 52 games he played before the All-Star break. He was putting up MVP numbers and was on his way to another 50-40-90 year.

As the season progressed, however, Nash deteriorated more and more, and it shined through in his play. But that fluctuation in production will undoubtedly decrease next season. Nash and the 39-year-old Hill will be fresh off almost eight and a half months of rest by the time their season kicks off, and the duo now has 16 fewer games to fight through.

The Suns also caught a break with the Brooks situation. While his status remains murky, the lockout allowed the Suns to put off the decision of whether or not to re-sign the scoring point guard. They’ll have a few months of Nash to evaluate the market for MVSteve and make their decision on Brooks from there.

All in all, the lockout isn’t what anyone wanted. A full season was the best-case scenario for all parties involved. But the Suns may just benefit from this 66-game schedule, and for a team that missed the playoffs a year ago, they’ll take any advantage they can get.

Mike Schmitz

Mike Schmitz is a former ValleyoftheSuns writer who now works as an assistant video coordinator for the D-League\\’s Bakersfield Jam. He specialized in video breakdowns for VotS.

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Tags: Lockout · Phoenix Suns · Phoenix Suns Analysis

34 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Jason A. // Nov 30, 2011 at 12:38 am

    This is definitely a possibility. It’s also possible our guys won’t be able to take the punishment of back-to-back-to-backs. You just know Stern is giving us three of them. I think we’re a high quality backup PG away from having another 40 win season…but this year that’s serious.

  • 2 Rich Anthony, (KJL) // Nov 30, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Okay okay enough.

    To any of our VoTS writers, I’m asking you about trade chatter involving our team.

    I’m pretty up to date with the current offers out there for other teams. Anything out there yet for the Suns? We still have too many small forwards and we still lack a pure scoring option.

    If the Suns are going to go all in again, they need to address these areas while gaining draft picks.

  • 3 steve // Nov 30, 2011 at 10:17 am

    There probably isn’t any chatter because our front office has put its earmuffs on concerning our two most valuable pieces (Nash and Gortat). I have a hard time believing anyone else would fetch much.

  • 4 Scott // Nov 30, 2011 at 10:53 am

    The Suns still need to acquire a backup PG, and of the unrestricted FA PGs out there, only two have a better PER than Zabian Dowdell. They are Boykins and Barea.

    The Suns also need a crunch time player and possibly a secondary distributor, both to keep defenses from keying in so hard on Nash. My hope is that Childress, Dudley, and Hill can act as secondary distributors, and that the coaching staff can come up with plays to specifically take advantage of their passing.

    I also think the Suns need to get something for the expiring contract of Pietrus. At the top of my wish list would be Udrih for backup PG, as he has a skill set similar to that of Nash and could more easily step in for him in case of injury. However, if that’s not possible I’d still want to see Pietrus used in some sort of trade. I don’t think he’ll be happy being buried on the Suns’ bench.

  • 5 Zak // Nov 30, 2011 at 11:35 am

    I mostly agree with Scott. Unless they’re willing to blow up the team this season and start rebuilding right away – which I just don’t think they are going to do – getting another consistent scoring option should be their first priority and a backup PG a high second. I think Barea isn’t going to be an option. I like him and I like his game but from what I’ve read he’s second only to T. Chandler in priority to resign in Dallas. Once they buy out the last year of VC’s contract it will give them some room to maneuver.

    And for those who think the Suns should trade Nash… it’s too late. I love Steve but honestly he’s very near the end of his career and how much value does he really have as a trade chip? As Mike said, Steve’s physical condition (and play) deteriorated toward the end of last season and every other team in NBA knows that too! Do we really want to trade Steve for another aging vet with maybe one or two years left or even more roll-players. No team in it’s right mind would trade a young, promising player for Steve. I honestly love the guy but I’m trying to be realistic.

  • 6 steve // Nov 30, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    People have been saying Nash’s trade value is low for the past 3+ years. It’s not true. Nash is a championship-caliber PG playing for a lotter-caliber team. If Nash went to a place like Miami (just to throw out a name), their already good chances of winning it all will become astronomically good chances. There is a LOT of value to be had in a Nash deal for certain teams. The three teams I think would have the biggest need for a guy like Nash off the top of my head: Lakers, Magic, Heat. I think any of those teams would be willing to sell off their first grandchild at a chance to get Steve Nash. Not saying they will, or that the Suns would go for it. But they would be willing if they were smart and could make it feasible financially.

  • 7 Zak // Nov 30, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    @ steve

    Nash’s value as a player is great even at this stage of his career. Nash’s TRADE value is low because he’s near the end of his career. Yeah, I’m sure Miami would love to have him BUT… what will they give the Suns in trade for him? For that matter what will the Lakers or the Magic give back in trade for him since you mentioned them? Who do you realistically think that any of those three teams would trade for Steve? I don’t disagree that any of them wouldn’t want him but you tell me who you think they would trade to the Suns to get him. LOTS of teams would love to have him but just tell me who you think those teams would be willing to trade for him. Miami? At best they might be willing to trade Miller or Haslem for Steve. If you think they would even trade Bosh for him… you’re dreaming. The Lakers? At best you might expect Odom if the Lakers thought that Steve might be the final missing piece to another championship run but more likely the best offer you would get is Metta World Peace. Orlando? I’m sure they would love to work out some sort of deal to trade Arenas to Phoenix for Nash but who else on that team are they willing to get ride of to get him?

    Like I said, Steve’s value as a player is still great but his value as a trade chip is low because no team is going to be willing to trade another player IN HIS PRIME for a great player who might only have one or two seasons left. At best you might get a very young player with potential from a team looking for a proven vet to make a playoff run this season but do the Heat, Lakers or Magic have a player like that on their rosters? All I’m asking is WHO do you expect to trade Steve for? Don’t tell me and everyone else that we should trade him now unless you can realistically tell me what you think he could bring the Suns in return.

    Trading him now will NOT help the Suns in any meaningful way. If you want to trade him to the Heat for Miller just to give Steve a chance at a championship ring before his career is over then I can agree with that. I love Steve and would love for him to get that ring before he retires but that’s the only reason I can see for trading him now… unless you want to clean house, tank the season and start rebuilding right away.

  • 8 Zak // Nov 30, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Oh yeah, IF Steve was a FA this season, I’m sure many teams would be bidding for him. But he’s not. Lots of teams would be willing to take a chance on him in the FA market but few would trade away their future to get him for one or two seasons.

  • 9 steve // Nov 30, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    I hear what you’re saying. And I’ve been hearing the same baseless argument for the past three years (since I have been calling for him to be traded).

    Being old doesn’t equate to being bad. There are (or at least should be) a handful of teams willing to risk their futures for one championship (see Celtics). A SMART GM would realize that championships convince megastars to stay put and basically give immunity for five years.

    Nash/Bosh isn’t as far from realistic as you might think. Bosh is a top 20 talent who is apparently mismatched with his teammates. Nash is a top 20 guy, and are you going to tell me that Miami wouldn’t like to get even value for a year (or three?) AND clear up about 6 million in cap space for much needed depth?

    Nash/Odom isn’t that far off either. I think there is no way the Suns would give Nash to LA even if they offered Kobe and Pau, so it’s not really worth discussing the deal, but bringing up an Artest for Nash deal is laughable. Nash in his current state is 5x the player Artest has EVER been. That right there shows me how much you underestimate the value of Nash and the value of a championship.

    Orlando has one chance to keep Dwight. After that, it’s over. If they don’t win it all this year, he’s gone. Even if they DO win it all this year, he’s probably still gone. Getting Nash (or Paul, or Rondo, or Williams, etc) is something they should have done a long time ago. A Nash/Howard PnR would end world hunger and eradicate poverty by the second week of the season. With three other scrubs, they could give Miami a run for their money.

    And btw, deals involving superstars like Nash almost always have to involve a third team. I won’t get into the infinite amount of possibilities, but I’ll just say again… a smart GM would be willing to bet his job and the franchise’s future on a guy like Nash and one chance to win it all. He might lose his job after the franchise falls into the abyss, but even if he doesn’t get the ring, NO ONE is going to fault a GM for going for broke on a guy like Steve Nash. There would be other GM jobs waiting for whoever pulls that deal. It’s win-win.

  • 10 Chris // Nov 30, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    What about dangling Pietrus, Lopez, & a possible draft pick to Utah for Milsap? Gives Utah a good wing defender & possible replacement for Kirlienko & a 7 footer with potential. The draft pick would be a plus. This would give the Suns a nice 4 who can work the pick and pop with Nash & rebound along with Gortat.

  • 11 Zak // Nov 30, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    @ steve

    The Suns took a chance on VC. It didn’t work out and how many people are saying, “It was worth a shot” now. Trading Bosh for Nash? Lol! Only if Miami is desperate to try anything to win THIS year. And Nash for Odom… the Lakers aren’t that desperate to win THIS year to try such a long-shot deal.

    You still call Nash a “superstar”. He’s not that anymore. Deal with reality for a change. He MIGHT have one more great season left – and I certainly hope he does as long as he stays with the Suns – but it’s unlikely.

    “NO ONE is going to fault a GM for going for broke on a guy like Steve Nash.” Get real. You’re thinking as a Suns fan only. Fans of ANY other team in the NBA would cry out for the heads of their management if they traded for Steve and he didn’t live up to their expectations. Nash is a gamble at this point in his career. Anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming.

    You can think that that other teams will be willing to trade anything to get him all you want but that doesn’t make it so.

    Even if Miami was willing to trade Bosh for Nash… would that really help the Suns? Bosh needs someone to get the ball to him… do you think ZD and Bosh are the future of the Suns? Or Brooks and Bosh? Is Odom the future of the Suns if the Lakers would be willing to trade him for Nash?

    However you look at it, trading Nash now only makes sense if you want to blow up the team and try to start over. Bosh might make sense in that respect but he’s already on record as not being comfortable as the “go-to” franchise player. That’s one of the reasons he went to Miami. He didn’t like the pressure of being “the guy” in Toronto.

    None of your arguments really make any sense from the other team’s perspective.

  • 12 Zak // Nov 30, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    BTW… how many of you think that Sarver hasn’t already waved Steve Nash as trade bait? Just because we haven’t heard “rumors” about it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. Steve Nash will be a free agent NEXT season. Then we’ll see how many teams are willing to gamble on signing him to a short term contract. I doubt anyone is willing to trade away their future to get him this year when they can bid on him without having to trade anyone for him.

  • 13 steve // Nov 30, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    None of my arguments make any sense from the other team’s perspective?

    I listed three teams with championship aspirations lacking a premiere point guard, and it doesn’t make sense to you that they would want him? Are you really that thick?

    Nash led the league in assists last year, in case you don’t remember, had a PER over 20, WS/48 of 0.153, a TS% over 60, and an ORtg of 118. While leading the league in assists, he was just 6th in TOs. He was easily a top 5 PG last year, and the only guys I would have rather had LAST YEAR than Nash are Paul, Williams, and Rose.

    Numbers don’t lie, and the numbers say that Nash is one of the 5 best point guards on the planet today, and he hasn’t shown one sign that he’s slowing down.

    I tried not to bring insults into the matter and just argue the point, but you’re obviously not getting the point, so I’ll just spell it out simply, and try to argue against these couple of sentences:

    Fact: Nash is a top 5 PG
    Fact: The Lakers and Heat do not have a quality PG, and the Magic might have a halfway decent one, but Nash would obviously still be an upgrade.
    Fact: Championships bring FAR more value to a franchise than Nash’s $10M salary.
    Fact: Comparing Vince Carter’s ghost and Steve Nash is a travesty, and you obviously have no idea what I’m really trying to say if you do so.

    Btw, the Suns weren’t “taking a chance” on VC. They were accepting one man’s albatross in order to get rid of an albatross of their own (Hedo).

    The fact that there was even a RUMOR that Minny was willing to trade the No. 2 pick for Nash shows Nash has value. Apparently Nash’s little amount of time remaining is more valuable than Williams’ entire career.

    Seriously, you really have no argument other than, “He’s old, so his value isn’t high.” That’s not a real argument. Kobe is old. Dirk is old. Garnett and Amare were “old” (by PF standards) when their current teams went for it with them, and it didn’t stop them (and it actually paid off rather nicely for Danny Ainge, too, who went from being the worst GM in Boston history to being the savior in one season).

    I know I shouldn’t waste this many words on people like you, but I feel compelled to do for some reason. My point still stands and I don’t think it’s one you could possibly refute with any other argument besides “he’s old.” Nash is a valuable asset that every GM and owner would want to have (you said as much yourself), and it really makes sense for a few teams to go for it in a big way to get him on their side of the pine. The way that championships are valued these days, teams with superstars have to win it all or the season was a failure. Nash can help LeBron, Dwight, Kobe, KD, or whoever put a ring on their finger, and no GM is stupid enough to believe he isn’t worth it if they could make the deal happen.

  • 14 Rich Anthony, (KJL) // Nov 30, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    You guys are all sadly mistaken if you [1] think Nash isn’t a superstar anymore or [2] think that there isn’t any value there.

    You’re looking at it all wrong and really, being fans of the Suns it’s amazing that you are looking at it all wrong.

    You look at the teams that were in the playoffs last year who didn’t win the championship. Put those teams up against the teams they lost to. What was the missing piece for most of those teams? Don’t stress your brains too much. I’ll break it down.

    OKC vs. Dallas – Thunder lost that series, in part, because Westbrook wanted to dominate and not manage when he should have, (IE give the ball to Durant). On the other side? Kidd, a true point guard, kept things moving along and Barea kept slashing. Nash does both of those things and, if he were on the Thunder running the show instead of Westbrook, who in the west stops that team?

    DAL vs LAL – Fisher? He was eaten alive all series and he couldn’t be that scorting threat on his own on offense. He isn’t a playmaker or passer with the ball. He is a guard who brings it up the floor, gives it up, then tries to find space. If Nash is there, spacing opens up 10 times more and even if he gets beat the defense is there behind him and he’s going to play passing lanes.

    Take Bibby off of the Heat and replace him with Nash. Dynasty.

    Place Nash in ATL. Place Nash in BOS over Rondo. Place Nash in NY where he can properly keep the posession balance intact with STAT and Melo. He is a major upgrade to any “win now” team multiplied by a short season where the season + finals run would be around the 82 game mark? Yeah, the value is there.

    I also think the biggest mistake a lot of you are making is thinking that Nash, on another team, has to be the same Nash that has carried our franchise over the last few years. He doesn’t.

    On a team like the Heat or Boston, for example, he wouldn’t be the defensive victim that he is in PHX. They could simply hide him on the opponent’s least dangerous offensive player while guys like James, Wade, Pierce, or Garnett handle the defensive responsibilities because they can.

    All he’d have to do is make the offense hum, and take 3 charges a game and play passing lanes. He can do that in his sleep; he does do it in his sleep for us.

    He’d be devastating for so many ring-chasing teams. The value is there. There’s value in a few of our Current Suns. Frye is a big who can stretch the floor – value. Gortat is a cen – THOU SHALL NOT TOUCH GORTAT!?!?! Dudley plays good defense, bangs 3s and actually has a great post-up game. You don’t see it in PHX, but remember his game from college and a bit from CHA.

    There’s value all over the place and as I said before, just because, tossed together in PHX, it doesn’t work doesn’t mean that value won’t work in other places.

  • 15 steve // Nov 30, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Thanks, rich. My thoughts summed up perfectly. I was a bit too frustrated to write coherently, and probably couldn’t have said things right if I wasn’t mad.

  • 16 Tony // Nov 30, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    Mike,

    your optimism is stunning. The 66-game schedule on its face sounds nice, but when you look at the details, specifically the condensced schedule, the fact the Suns will have to play back to back to back games, I don’t see how this benefits the Suns. Even though it will be a shorter season, there will be less time for Nash and Hill to rest, assuming he resigns. And that’s another thing, this team does not have great chemistry. When you especially consider that they will have a rookie, will probably sign a sub-par pg and center, it will take time to get everyone on the same plan and to gel. If Hill does not resign, it will be even more difficult, because that will probably mean Childress will be starting.

  • 17 Grant Hill the 'top priority' for Phoenix Suns // Nov 30, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    [...] also provides the Suns with the kind of stability that will be necessary during what promises to be a chaotic season, as his signing would ensure that all of [...]

  • 18 sun also rises // Nov 30, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    Someone check Tony’s temperature, he just went into “glass half empty” mode without mentioning you-kn0w-who.

  • 19 Scott // Dec 1, 2011 at 2:02 am

    @steve, rich, or anyone -

    What are the realistic trade scenarios you see for Nash, and how do they benefit the Suns?

    About the best trade scenario I can come up with is a straight up point for point trade with NJ, assuming that D Will wants out, and that Nash wants to live in (or near) NYC.

    I think the trade is highly improbable, but I like it for the Suns in the sense that it nets them a young, high quality PG who can play in a traditional Suns system.

    It would also work for the Nets in the sense that they need stability at the point and a player that will draw crowds. Nash will put butts in seats and provide highlight footage, while at the same time making the rest of the team look good, and all for 2/3s the cost of Deron Williams.

    If necessary, the Suns could toss R Lopez into the deal as well, in exchange for a future Nets pick.

  • 20 Mike Meez // Dec 1, 2011 at 10:46 am

    I think the Nets are focused on trying to keep D-Will and bring in other stars. They’ve got a rich owner trying to build a team. Nash only has a couple years left so whatever team would want him would have to be a contender now.

    Lakers is not happening. I don’t think we’d trade Nash within the division, especially not to the Lakers. But more importantly, Nash might not fit with their offense. Phil Jackson is gone now, but he ran the triangle offense where you didn’t really need a playmaker PG. That’s why Fisher was always good for it. A solid defender (in his younger days), reliable shooter, decent ballhandler. So unless the Lakers radically change their offense, Nash wouldn’t be that valuable for their system.

    I don’t see Miami giving up Bosh. Bosh is still pretty young at 27 and a great player. Even with a lackluster first year for the Heat, Bosh is one of the best power forwards in the league. Probably not Top 5, definitely Top 10. There’s just no reason Miami would trade a guy like that with so many years left for two years of Nash.

    Orlando is one of the few teams that may bite. They’re desperate to keep Howard and winning a championship. And if we’re willing to take on Agent Zero’s contract, they’d give up just about anything. Problem is I don’t know who we’d want. Ryan Anderson and Jameer Nelson and picks? Not sure it’s worth it for the Suns.

    I’ve also changed my opinion on Nash leaving. Last year, I wanted Nash to go to a contender so he could get a ring. But honestly, it wouldn’t be that special for him if he did that. Role players can be satisfied with that (Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, etc), but not a truly great player who’s had opportunities to win a championship as “the man.” If Karl Malone had a ring with the Lakers as a role player, how much would that have changed his legacy? So it’s only fitting that Nash finishes his career as a Sun, fighting until the end, and likely never winning a championship (mostly because of Sarver).

  • 21 Zak // Dec 1, 2011 at 11:53 am

    You guys keep missing my point. I think Steve is still a great player. He most definitely could help virtually any team in the NBA. He is a very valuable player.

    My point is that who would/could the Suns reasonably expect other teams to trade for Steve? If your reason for wanting to trade Steve is because you think it’s best for the future to clean house and start rebuilding right away… then I AGREE with you! If that’s what the Suns decide to do then I hope they DO trade Steve ASAP if for no other reason than not making him have to play out the rest of his career on a Suns team that isn’t at least trying to field a competitive team NOW.

    My thoughts about trading Steve now are based on my belief that Sarver isn’t willing to do that yet. He will try – and very possibly fail – to make a few moves to make the Suns competitive again this year and he knows that he cant do that without Steve on the roster. I know there are plenty of people here who insist that the smart thing for the Suns to do is start rebuilding this season. Maybe it is the smart thing to do BUT how many of you also think that Sarver will actually do the “smart” thing?

  • 22 Zak // Dec 1, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    @ steve

    Direct quote from you post:

    “Seriously, you really have no argument other than, “He’s old, so his value isn’t high.” That’s not a real argument.”

    The quote you attribute to me is a pure fabrication. I never said/wrote that. If you want to quote me, feel free to do so but please do it accurately and not make something up and pretend that you are quoting me.

  • 23 steve // Dec 1, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    “Nash’s TRADE value is low because he’s near the end of his career.”

    “Steve’s value as a player is still great but his value as a trade chip is low because no team is going to be willing to trade another player IN HIS PRIME for a great player who might only have one or two seasons left.”

    “You still call Nash a “superstar”. He’s not that anymore. Deal with reality for a change. He MIGHT have one more great season left…”

    And boom goes the dynamite.

  • 24 steve // Dec 1, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Sure, maybe I technically shouldn’t have put it in quotes since it was a summary and not a quote. However, the summary is accurate. I didn’t think we were here to argue about grammar.

    IN SUMMARY, your argument is that Nash’s trade value is low because he’s old. It has nothing to do with the level at which he’s playing (because he is a top 5 PG statistically). It’s just because he is old, and you have said it yourself (see quotes above).

    ^^^^ Does that make you happy?

    Nash had to take a pay cut on his last extension because no PG in history has ever played this well this late into his career, so people didn’t believe he could keep it up. That’s what I mean this has been going on for years. And what has Nash done since then? Oh, just make regular all-star and all-NBA teams while being THE stud on a Western Conference contender. But he’s old, so it’s gotta end some time, right?

    I’m not saying that no one thinks like you. Obviously you think like you, so that’s someone. What I am saying is that if you were to line up all the PG stats in the league last year, Steve Nash would be in the top 5 in every single ballot, and numbers don’t lie. There are some people out there who are smart enough to trust that numbers can trump intuition. Intuition says that Nash should have slowed down five years ago. He didn’t. So since he didn’t slow down in the past five years, are we just always supposed to expect it will happen THIS year?

    You’re guessing. I’m reasoning. That’s the difference between the “old” argument and the “numbers” argument. Forgive my possible misuse of quotations.

  • 25 Zak // Dec 1, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    @ steve

    Thank you for quoting me accurately. I DID say ALL those things you quoted me as saying in your last post and I stand by them… in the context of the rest of the posts in which I made them.

    I don’t want to get into a war of words with you and I’m NOT trying to piss you off no matter what you might think. Our opinions differ… big deal. No offense intended. I admit that I went over the line a bit with replies to some of your posts and was overly critical of your opinions. I apologize for those comments that you found personally offensive. I did not intend them to be so but I can certainly see how they could be interpreted as such.

    I love discussing the Suns and sometimes get too wound up in expressing my own opinions to think of how my words might affect and/or offend others.

    Zak

  • 26 Zak // Dec 1, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Well, I see I wrote my apology too soon, before I read your next post. If you want to continue to post offensive remarks and misinterpret my statements, so be it. You “win”.

  • 27 Zak // Dec 1, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    FYI… “Forgive my possible misuse of quotations.”

    The sarcasm came through loud and clear even in print… just in case you were wondering.

  • 28 Scott // Dec 1, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    @Mike -

    I agree, in that I really don’t see any good scenarios for trading Nash. If someone sees one, then please post it.

    As for the NJ trade I proposed, it’s certainly true NJ is not a contender. No contender has pieces to give the Suns, because they need to keep them all in order to remain contenders. If a winning team had a surplus of talent in an area, then that might provide a prospect for trade, but I’ve not found any.

    So Nash would have to go a rebuilding team. That sounds bad, but according to several people Nash is ON a rebuilding team now, so it might be seen as a lateral move, and maybe a move to a weaker conference.

    There are only 3 reasons I can think of for Nash to accept a trade to NJ. One, he seems to really love the NYC area. Two, if he looks at the Suns as a team likely to miss the playoffs, then he might have a better chance getting to the playoffs with the Nets and their super wealthy owner. Three, if he’s the one people are coming to see in NJ, and the owner is fabulously wealthy, then maybe he can get a better contract there than he can with Sarver.

  • 29 Ryan // Dec 2, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    After reading this thread I’d have to say some valid points have been made by all points of view concerning a Nash trade(value). I will say the Clippers to me seem to be the best suitor as far as a trade….Clippers have pieces and future picks the Suns could use to rebuild, and Nash I think without argument makes them a contender.

  • 30 Ryan // Dec 2, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Suns trade Nash and a sign and trade on Hill to the Clipps for Mo Williams and the T wolves pick plus another future first round pick?

  • 31 Michael Schwartz // Dec 3, 2011 at 12:17 am

    I’ve been saying for a while that I thought a Nash trade to the Clippers for the Minny pick was the best possible scenario for the Suns. I just don’t see the Clippers mortgaging such a important future asset to go for it now.

  • 32 steve // Dec 3, 2011 at 8:26 am

    Sterling is capable of anything. I wouldn’t rule it out.

  • 33 Marley // Dec 3, 2011 at 10:28 am

    @steve

    You are delusional!

    Nash’s biggest value is his expiring contract!

    JJ Barea for Dallas proved how overrated Steve Nash is. Nash’s numbers are over inflated because he handles the ball 99% of the time! Every play is a pick n roll!

    Miami does not need Nash when they already have LBJ and Wade handling the ball. What Miami needs a big center.

    If Orlando wants to keep Dwight, they are not going to do it by getting an old PG at the end of his career.

    The Lakers? Hmmm … Derek Fisher vs Nash? I’ll take Fisher! The Lakers do not need Nash.

    The Suns are obviously not going to get any value in return for Nash. They are best to just keep him and Grant Hill for one more final season as they make plans to rebuild for next season.

  • 34 steve // Dec 3, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Ugh. Marley.

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