Deals for Turkoglu, Childress put Suns back in the mix

Posted by on July 12th, 4:23 pm

Hedo Turkoglu will make the Phoenix Suns' offense even more versatile next season. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)

Hedo Turkoglu will make the Phoenix Suns' offense even more versatile next season. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)

When Amare Stoudemire left for the New York Knicks, I started pondering the options the Phoenix Suns had at their disposal to become an upper-echelon team again.

I felt they should either go after a power forward to replace Amare or (after Phoenix signed Warrick and quality power forwards started coming off the market) wait until next season and replace Jason Richardson with a star wing when they would have a max contract to offer if LB was shed.

But as much as my Twitter followers and I pored over the 2011 free agency class, all we could find was Carmelo (who wasn’t coming) and not much else when it comes to max-worthy wings.

So the Suns made a sensible move. They cashed in their financial flexibility in terms of the salary cap space they could have next summer and the trade exception they own now to acquire a pair of players who can help today while Nash is still playing at a superstar level (and they still have about $6 million worth of trade exception left).

You can say that flexibility is so important, but look at what happened to a team like New York that played for cap space. They ended up with just Amare after two years losing. The Suns were a nice team that wasn’t likely to go beyond the first round before this move and now they have a chance to be really interesting.

By acquiring Hedo Turkoglu for Leandro Barbosa and Dwayne Jones and then getting Josh Childress in a sign-and-trade, the talent level of the Suns’ roster is seriously upgraded.

People forget that Turkoglu was one of the most sought-after free agent on the market this time last season. He was coming off a pair of seasons in which he went 19.5-5.7-5.0 on 45.6 percent shooting from the field and 40 percent from three and then 16.8-5.3-4.9.

He was the crunch time scorer for the 2008-09 Orlando team that went to the Finals, hitting a plethora of clutch shots and emerging as the prime creator of offense in the playoffs with Jameer Nelson injured.

Teams salivated over him during free agency, and before he reneged on Portland people thought he could be the missing piece for them.

Then he signed his five-year, $53 million deal with the Toronto Raptors and last year happened. Turkoglu threw up a clunker of a season, regressing to 11.3-4.7-4.1 on 40.9 percent shooting. The fit wasn’t right, and he wanted out.

Turkoglu still has four years and about $44 million left on his deal (although he apparently is waiving about $5 million of his trade kicker and reducing the amount of guaranteed money in his final year), so this is still a risk, but I think the fact that he’s willing to leave money on the table shows how much he wants to come to Phoenix. Turkoglu almost became a Sun in 2004 and seems to be happy about the move.

The offense can become even more versatile now. He can be a co-facilitator with Nash and Dragic, he can shoot the three, he can post and penetrate and overall just cause matchup problems all over the floor. The Suns are so good at taking advantage of those mismatches that I think Hedo will be a great fit offensively.

Josh Childress is an efficient shooter and a quality defender. (AP Photo/John Bazemore)

Josh Childress is an efficient shooter and a quality defender. (AP Photo/John Bazemore)

When you talk about Childress, you’re talking about a guy who will be a great fit defensively. He’s a long, athletic defender who could be the Suns’ Kobe-stopper (or at least the closest thing to it). Having Childress, Dudley and Hill gives the Suns some night options to guard wings and point guards.

Childress, the sixth overall pick in 2004 out of Stanford, is also no slouch offensively. He averaged 11.1 points on 52.2 percent shooting in his four seasons, scoring in double digits every year and shooting better than 50 percent in all but his rookie campaign. Childress shot 57.1 percent in 2007-08 and ranked fourth in the NBA with a true shooting percentage of 64.7 percent that year.

Only having to yield a second-round pick and signing him to an affordable five-year, $33 million deal (so you mean Childress is on the same level as Drew Gooden and Amir Johnson?) is nice value for a 27-year-old chemistry guy who should be a solid piece for the Suns for years to come.

In a summer filled with disgusting contracts, that’s the second good deal the Suns have made (the other being the Warrick one).

The best part is the offseason still isn’t over. Although Turkoglu could play some four, the Suns have a glut at the wing spots and could be able to make a move for an interior scorer since Robin Lopez is the closest thing they have to low-post scoring (Jason Richardson for Al Jefferson anyone?)

This deal also means the Suns have essentially been able to acquire Hedo, Childress and Warrick for Amare and LB. Sounds a little better than J.J. Hickson, doesn’t it?

Questions still abound about the Phoenix Suns after these two transactions. They have some nice pieces but no second star. They don’t really have a bonafide interior scorer. They have a glut on the wing, and it’s hard to say if everyone will be as happy to share time as they were last year. The Suns now have to be the deepest team in the league (they can go 10 deep without even getting to Earl Clark and Gani Lawal), but will the pieces fit as well as last season?

That final question is really what’s most important. The Suns now have so many different lineups that can attack in so many different ways. They could put out an all-three-pointers lineup, a defense lineup, an unconventional matchup nightmare offensive lineup. They just have so many options and a coach who likes to utilize all of them.

The Suns are taking a chance, particularly on Turkoglu, whom I think would be a perfect fit if he reverts back to Orlando form but otherwise could be an albatross for years to come.

But it’s a chance the Suns needed to take. With this move, the Suns have officially returned to the pack of Western Conference teams fighting to be the best squad besides the Lakers and will remain a threat through the end of Steve Nash’s contract.

Michael Schwartz founded ValleyoftheSuns in October 2008 and is the owner/editor emeritus of the site. He is currently working toward his MBA in sports business at San Diego State University.

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Tags: Hedo Turkoglu · Josh Childress · Phoenix Suns · Phoenix Suns Analysis · Phoenix Suns News · Trades

39 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Stuart // Jul 12, 2010 at 9:35 am

    What about JRich for Igudola? Makes sense for philly as Richardson can play the two, allowing Turner to be their 3 in addition to it be a one year salary vs. Iggy's contract. For the Suns, it gives them a player they were possibly going to acquire for Stoudemire and gives them another scorer/defender.

  • 2 Hayden // Jul 12, 2010 at 9:57 am

    What would be most awesome is if we could swap J-Rich for Kevin Love.

    Now, I don't know if this would work under the cap, and I would never consider it a possibility if we were dealing with any other team, but we are dealing with Kahn . I'm pretty sure the man was lobotomised a couple of seasons back. He's just picking up players based on the letters in front of their name. How else do you explain about five small forwards, power forwards and point guards and no-one else except Darko Milicic? Give it a go.

    Otherwise, Jefferson would be fine. Training staff would get him humming again. I just worry about the Shaq 2 factor.

  • 3 HD // Jul 12, 2010 at 10:58 am

    McGrady is old, fat and another wing in a team that now has more than enough. Don't let the past distract you from the terrible reality of the present.

    West would be good. Mobile, scores well from mid range and in the pick and roll. I just don't see the Hornets letting go of him when Chris Paul is already disgruntled. That would inflame the situation to full on trade request mode.

    Okafor can't score and has a terrible contract. We need low post scoring and no more terrible contracts.

    Jefferson scores great but can't move.

    Sticking with Richardson isn't looking too bad.

  • 4 ghost of Darko // Jul 12, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    look – I don't wanna rain on the parade here, but the optimism regarding the Suns' moves is wildly misplaced.

    @Mike L: of the 10 man squad you described as "defensive" only Dudley & Childress would be considered above-average. a greater number (Nash, Turk & Miller) are flat-out awful defensively.

    the Suns were designed to win based on their offensive efficiency – based on screen-roll & spacing for shooters. they are now less threatening in screen-roll (which means less space for the shooters) AND weaker shooting. this well not end well.

    I'm saddened that the era of the most entertaining team of the last seven years is over.

  • 5 LEo // Jul 12, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    i say keep the current roster right now.

    starting 5:

    nash

    j-rich

    hedo (jus to keep him happy)

    hakim/clark/lawal ?

    lopez

    2nd unit:

    goran

    dudley/hill/childress

    dudley/hill/childress

    dudley/hill/childress

    frye

    dud, hill and childress will switch up 2-4. we cant hav turkoglu come off the bench this will lead to him being unhappy( his morale will determine our success). besides i dont think ghill will mind. plus our 2nd unit will play with more confidence with ghill on the court with them.

    i cant stand losing j-rich. he was a major part of that chemistry last year and besides we only hav 2-3 guards left. oh and that idea of having an allthree pointer team is hella nice haha

  • 6 Mike L // Jul 12, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Michael – what about Brad Miller? He wants more money than we have but what if we packaged JRich to the Bulls (and maybe part of a TE) to bring him here? We’d have two centers in RoLo and Miller, so not sure if that’s something they’d want to do, but then you could think about starting Nash, Hill, RoLo, Torkoglu and Miller, then have the backups be Childress, Frye, Dudley, Dragic, Warrick off the bench followed by Lawal and Clark. That would be a big, athletic, talented and defensive squad!

  • 7 joe // Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Suns need to try and get David West, Emeka Okafor or Al Jefferson. West would be great and we could probably get him for a couple picks, earl clark, and the remaining 5.7million of the trade exemption. Or we could trade J-Rich and some picks for Jefferson, then sign T-mac to the maximum mid level exemption. Or we could do the same trade i just mentioned, except for Okafor instead of Jefferson and still sign T-Mac. Any one of those senarios would be fantastic and put the suns right in line with L.A. We could be very, very good next year!

  • 8 Mike L // Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    I’m concerned about trading for Jefferson. That would be two (including Turkoglu) big and risky contracts … and TOO big and risky contracts.

  • 9 shawn // Jul 12, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    A step in the right direction. Suns should be able to create even more match-up problems but I would still like to see another defensive/rebounding big man to play along with or spell Lopez when he needs rest.

  • 10 Artur Mascarenhas // Jul 12, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    The thought of sending one of our players to Minnesota is way too cruel. J-Rich deserve better!

    One guy that may be interesting to the Suns new look is Varejao. Could be a nice fit and he is probably willing to move outta Ohio.

  • 11 DAG // Jul 12, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Can someone please confiscate Mike Schwatrz’ press pass? And lock him in closet some where far away from the a computer. Tell him he can come out when he learns something about basketball.

    Yes, Mike the Suns are back in contention, for the 6th seed. So much better than the 7, 8 or low lottery pick.

    Ok, lets get this very clear, a hole bunch of moderately talented players do not win championships. If Jason Richardson is set up to be your top scorer, your team will be bad. The Suns royally screwed the pooch this off season. It’s like they were trying to destroy any chance they had to do something positive.

  • 12 DAG // Jul 12, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    BTW- I feels so bad for Nash. Someone please save him.

  • 13 joe // Jul 12, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    T-Mac would be a very solid player once again on the suns. His only problem is his knees and look what the suns training staff did for Amare, Hill,McDyess, Penny, Shaq, and the list goes on. We have the best rehab and strenght trainers in the league. He could be a very solid scoring threat once again. People forget how amazing he was just a few years ago before his knees went out. Grant Hill was in the same situation when he came to Phoenix and look at how productive he has been. T-Mac would be 15-18ppg once again which is plenty good and about the same as J-Rich. The both are poor defenders so it’s a wash on both ends of the floor. If we replaced J-Rich with T-Mac we’d save around 7.5million, which alomg with the 5.7million trade exemption we still have, could be used to get a replacement PF for Amare. Warrick isn’t the answer and Hedo is a perimeter player. We’d have 13.2million to get West or Jefferson. The suns staff would fix Jefferson up and he’d be fine so that’s not anything to worry about in my opinion. He’s a beast just like Amare and actually outplayed Amare almost every time we played the T-Wolves. Forget about trying to save money because there’s no good free agents next year anyways. Try to win now while Nash is still playing at a high level

  • 14 Zach // Jul 12, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    We have the best shot at West I would think since Utah is leading for Jefferson and they are saying a deal could be done by tommorrow how about David West for Jason Richardson and a 2nd round pick or rest of TE

  • 15 Jasper Buckleman // Jul 12, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    “Ok, lets get this very clear, a hole bunch of moderately talented players do not win championships. If Jason Richardson is set up to be your top scorer, your team will be bad. The Suns royally screwed the pooch this off season. It’s like they were trying to destroy any chance they had to do something positive.”

    Normally, I would agree with you. However I seem to remember the Suns making it the Western Conference finals with Shawn Marion and Boris Diaw leading the way. Now, we obviously didn’t win a championship, but we got close and those aren’t exactly stars.

    I still say they need someone to rebound. Last I checked, you needed the ball to score.

  • 16 Mel. // Jul 12, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    Someone likened Gentry’s coaching style to that of an NHL team, and I’m inclined to agree. This doesn’t challenge the Lakers in terms of depth, but it does put the Suns in contention to be a spoiler once again.

    And honestly, I would take a thousand “underdog/spoiler” seasons over one more goddamned “we’re favored to WIN IT ALL; oh, whoops, Nash’s head just spontaneously popped off of his shoulders, and STAT decided that he’d rather rattle off a 40-15 line for the last eight games of the regular season than show up for the dance” season.

    I’ve had enough of that crap to last me a lifetime. I’d rather watch an intriguing team that plays passionate ball than the odds-on horse that blows out its knee on a fluke step some ten feet from the finish line.

  • 17 Anon // Jul 13, 2010 at 1:48 am

    I'm just stunned at some of the optimism so far over these moves. Everyone's excited over adding a 31 YO "shooter" who's not a particularly good shooter, not a good defender and not really a rebounder and has 4 years/$44M left on his deal ? Really?

    Everyone's excited about adding a guy (Warrick) who couldn't beat out Darrell Arthur for a starting job 2 years ago? Really? And giving him 4 years? Really?

    I like the Childress move and under different circumstances the Frye deal makes sense but these aren't those circumstances. They have good depth but you can only play 5 at a time – they are going to be worse defensively, MUCH worse rebounding and probably worse offensively.

    News flash Suns fans: the Suns SHOULD be in rebuilding mode. They lost one of their superstars and their other is going to be 37 halfway through next season. They should be trading Nash and Barbosa for picks, young players and/or cap space. Take the beating the next couple years, get some good draft picks, develop your young players, sign/trade for a couple key veterans and the Suns could contend in 2012-13.

    Instead they chose to be a fringe playoff team with no real future. Here's a prediction: Turkoglu will have one of the most untradeable contracts in the league in a year and a half.

    Sigh.

  • 18 Chad // Jul 13, 2010 at 2:17 am

    I really like adding Childress. I like the thought of Hedu as well. I still feel like we need more of a post-up presence at PF. I know we are stocked at the PF position but it seems to me that a lot of our PF's aren't really proven Post players or defenders.

    I have a thought still that would improve our bench yet again and possibly add more depth to the starting lineup and bench. I like JRich, but will we really sign him to an extension? I doubt it. I like the idea of trading him for Al Jefferson and getting Steve Nash to recruit Raja Bell back to the valley. Raja add more defense and hopefully can still shoot. While Jefferson could be on the floor with either Robin Lopez, Turkaglu or Frye. Not to mention with would have a couple big men to help defend against the lakers & spurs.

    But I know they would need to act fast I just saw Jefferson could be headed to the Jazz soon.

    Any thoughts?

  • 19 Chad // Jul 13, 2010 at 2:26 am

    On second thought, it may be harsh… but Earl Clark isn't performing so well, maybe we hang on to JRich and swap Earl for Al. We could use the rest of the trade exception and not be so stacked at PF.

    My only worry would be the clubhouse attitude if you were to add Al Jefferson & Hedu Turkaglu. I wonder if they would gel well together or not. But how does this sound?

    Starters:

    Nash

    JRich

    Hill

    Turkaglu/Warrick

    Lopez/Jefferson

    Bench:

    Dragic/Reynolds

    Dudley/Childress

    Duley/Childress

    Warrick/Lawal

    Frye/Lopez

  • 20 Anon // Jul 13, 2010 at 3:12 am

    @Chad – you do realize the Jazz are close to getting a deal done for Jefferson, right? The Wolves aren't taking back Earl Clark for Al Jefferson, that's just plain ridiculous. The Suns aren't getting Jefferson.

    As for West & Horford (which an number of people have mentioned), I like those deals but why would either team trade them? What do the Suns have to offer that would make those teams better off without West/Horford?

    Come on people, when you talk about prospective trades they ahve to be realistic.

  • 21 Welcome: Hjalmarsson and more possible Bulls | Outside the Clubhouse // Jul 13, 2010 at 3:44 am

    [...] teams break it down: the Raptors’ perspective; the Hawks’ point-of-view; and then the Suns’ [...]

  • 22 Beesee // Jul 13, 2010 at 4:42 am

    Amare averaged 8+ rebs a game in his WORST rebounding season in PHX. Neither Hakim nor Turk have SNIFFED 8 rebs a game for a season. That's how we'll be worse off rebounding-wise.

    Listen, we just traded our best scoring post-player since Barkley. Next thing you know we'll have Jake Voshkul and Bo Outlaw manning the pivot spots for us again.

  • 23 Chad // Jul 13, 2010 at 10:02 am

    I agree with Steve, I'm optomistic about what we have currently. But I would feel more comfortable with another proven Power Forward. That being said, if Warrick, Clark or Lawal could step into that roll and have a big year like we saw out of Dragic and Lopez then we should be on our way to another Western Conference Finals. My biggest concern is the problem we have faced the last several years. Not enough big men! It plagued us with the Spurs, now Duncan is older and isn't as much of a problem, but the Lakers are threatening to do the same thing unless we get some size, quality defenders and rebounders.

    I'm not completely comfortable with our current roster, but I like it a lot better than 3 days ago. I look at it this way… if anyone can turn and allstar out of Warrick, Clark or Lawal, it's gonna be Steve Nash.

    Go Suns

  • 24 sun also rises // Jul 13, 2010 at 11:18 am

    @ Anon

    You sound like someone posting about Y2K… “it’s the end of the world as we know it! the sky is falling! etc. etc.”. If you’re so deeply hurt by the team’s direction and the threat of mediocrity then you should probably take this opportunity to hop onto the Miami Heat band wagon.

    The Turkoglu deal might not end well and the Suns might be an eighth seed this year. So what. If you compare these moves to what our conference rivals (Spurs, Rockets and Jazz) have done to work with their rosters (losing players left and right and adding nobody) then I at least feel like we tried. If all you see is doom and gloom then again, you should probably take this opportunity to GTFO and cheer for a no risk prospect. Things could get scary in the post STAT era, and you don’t sound like you have the stomach for it. ;)

  • 25 Steve // Jul 13, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Anon, I’m just curious, but how do you figure that we’re going to be “MUCH” worse rebounding. It’s not like Amare was a beast on the boards. It’s already been discussed and really proven that Warrick should have been the starter in the situation you referred to. But regardless, he’s going to pull down as many boards as Amare would have. After all, it’s not that hard to get 7 boards when you’re 6’10″ unless your name is Amare Stoudemire.

    I agree with your assessment of Turkoglu though. I really don’t like the move. Although I do think that his fg% will be better in PHX than it has been elsewhere. That is almost universally true for all players who come to PHX.

  • 26 Chad // Jul 13, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Anon, it has been widely said that even though Hedu Turkaglu & Childress will be nice additions, we still lack a good post presence. I do hope that Warrick, Clark & Lawal step up to fill that void Amar’e is leaving. But obviously there is no gaurantee.

    I do realize that Jefferson is in talks to move to Utah, however no deal has been finalized. It isn’t known what Utah is sending for Jefferson. It is known that Minnesota has put Jefferson on the trading block & been vocal about wanting 1st round picks. All I’m saying is that if another team were to propose a better offer. They could pick him up. And I posed the questions if Al would even fit in with the Suns. Why do you claim Jefferson to the Suns isn’t realistic. It’s pretty obvious he’s not going to be playing in Minnesota next season. If the suns were to make a better offer it is realistic. But it’s up to the Suns management right now.

    As for West & Horford, I agree I doubt they will be traded and this is the first I’ve read of them being mentioned.

  • 27 Anon // Jul 13, 2010 at 11:39 am

    RE: Lopez – maybe he does improve, maybe not.

    The Suns have some promising young players in Dudley, Dragic & Lopez but I don't view any of them as likely stars. To me Dragic has the best chance to be a star but he has a long ways to go to reach that status.

  • 28 Chad // Jul 13, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Doh,.. Now Jefferson is a done deal!

  • 29 Steve // Jul 13, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Amare averaged 8 boards for a team near the top of the league for total rebounds (more attempts translates to more rebounds). I haven’t taken the time to look at their adjusted rebounding rates, but I would suspect that Amare and Warrick had very similar rebounding rates, considering Amare played 35 min while Warrick played 20 min. Amare played for one of the fastest-paced teams in the NBA, and Warrick played for one of the slowest-paced teams in the NBA.

    You don’t need a post-scorer to win the NBA title. Boston proved that, Miami proved that (Shaq averaged 13 points in the finals), Detroit proved that… need I go on? I don’t get why anybody would mourn the loss of one of the worst defenders in the league who didn’t show up for the playoffs.

  • 30 joe // Jul 13, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    maybe the suns could releave cleveland of antwan jamison. he would be a good fit for the suns and give them at least some post presense. Anyone know how many years he has left of his contract? If he only has a year or two then it wouldn’t hurt us in the long run and still give us a chance to win now

  • 31 Evan // Jul 13, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    With these trades the Suns have 5 small forwards (turk, childress, hill, dudley, and Warrick,) 2 point guards (Nash and Dragic), 1 shooting guard (Richardson) 1 real center (Lopez) 1 unconventional big man (Frye) and a unproven power forward (Clark) What we dont need is another Small forward with Jefferson or Igudalla we need another real big man we should have tried to get Tyson Chandler who would be great in the pick and roll and would give the SUNS a twin towers attack that would effectively counter the Lakers size but that would be logical, rather the suns have gone unconventional with way to many wings and not enough bigs as they always do. Once again the Suns will be good and fun to watch, but wont win the Championship.

  • 32 ghost of Darko // Jul 13, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    folks here are bashing Anon simply for telling the truth. Sarver’s moves since PHX left the playoffs are simply bizarre. extending Nash is a commitment to contend, so then you must also sign Amare. if you don’t sign Amare or another top flight 4 or 5, it’s over. keep your money in your pocket & start gathering assets for the future. nope…Sarv then goes on a spending spree, clogging the cap with NBA flotsam. too bad he didn’t hire Isiah Thomas as GM – that would have been the perfect finish. Kerr clearly knew it was time to go.

  • 33 Steve // Jul 13, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    I’m sure both of you were doubters last year as well.

    The fact remains, Amare is not a winner. He’s not ever going to be, unless he happens to luck out and end up playing with one of the true superstars of the league (Bryant, Wade, LeBron, soon to be Durant). Phoenix wasn’t going to win with Amare. Anyone who thinks the Suns should have resigned Amare to retain any hope of winning it all would be a worse GM than Thomas. Amare has had 7 years to bring the ‘ship to PHX, and he hasn’t done it. They had the best team in the league two of those years, and they flopped both times. Last year, they overacheived, but it was no thanks to Amare, who had a fairly lackluster postseason, in which he allowed “lesser” talents to steal the spotlight while he filled up the stat sheet with about 20 points and 6 boards per night (does that sound like a max player to you?).

    I get what you guys are saying, but you’re just wrong about the Suns having any shot whatsoever with Amare.

    Whether or not Sarver made the right calls remains to be seen, so why are you so quick to judge when you have no idea what the outcome will be? They need another big. I’ll give you that. But who says they’re done making moves?

  • 34 Anon // Jul 13, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    @Steve – as noted, Amare has 7 consecutive seasons (not counting his aborted 3 game 05-06) of 8+ rebounds per game. The other players added this year have 0 combined. Per 36 minutes, Amare has 6 seasons of 8.8+ RPG. The other players have never topped 7.3 in any single season. Looking at Reb% (which is simply the number fo rebounds vs. available rebounds and thus an even better measure since it accounts for pace and accuracy and playing time), Amare is at 14.7% for his career. Of the other players only Frye has had a single season better than that and that was only one season. Warrick has never topped 12.3% and Turkoglu has never topped 9.8% and that was back in the Sacramento days.

    The fact is while Amare wasn’t a great rebounder, he was a good rebounder. Too many fans compare him to all-time greats and say he’s not any good which is false. He is good. (Here’s a shocker – his career reb% is HIGHER than Shawn Marion’s. He just never played as many minutes as Marion so Marion always had higher totals.)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html

    As for Warrick, he couldn’t beat out Darrell Arthur in Memphis. He LOST his starting job last year to Ersan Ilyasova and Chicago traded for him in a salary dump where he couldn’t start ahead of Taj Gibson & James Johnson (2 rookies) on a team scrapping for a playoff spot. 3 different coaches in about 18 months looked at him and said, “Nah, he’s not the answer.” He’s not a playmaker, not a shotblocker, not a defensive whiz, not a shooter, and as noted not really a good rebounder for a 4. What am I missing?

    Unless Lopez really develops into a monster, the Suns are GOING to take a hit on the boards big time.

  • 35 Steve // Jul 13, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Thanks for taking the time to look up those stats. I would have thought that Amare’s TRB% would have been a little worse, but the numbers don’t lie. They do indicate he is an average rebounder for a big (but do average rebounders, and pretty good scorers get max money?). Another thing that is true is that most significant big men have a TRB% significantly higher than Amare’s. The problem with Amare isn’t that he’s a terrible rebounder (I actually agree that he is a good rebounder). The problem is that he has two-rebound duds in the PLAYOFFS. When things got tough and people actually started fighting for the ball instead of the normal lazy behavior of the regular season, Amare fell flat, when he should have risen to the occasion.

    Fyi, Lopez’s TRB% was 14.2% last year, significantly higher than his rookie campaign. I expect him to get more toward where bigs should be (16-19%) next season, picking up any slack there might be. I’m not anticipating a huge disparity at all. But again, I would feel a lot more comfortable with one more big. PLEASE NOT KURT THOMAS.

  • 36 KeZ // Jul 14, 2010 at 3:06 am

    I think its time for *some* off you guys to stop all this Amar´e hatin! Ive been a Phx fan since 93 and lets be honest, Amar´e was a beast for us! Power forwards/Centers like him doesnt come along very often! In his 7 seasons with Phx he did som incredible things. He simply was a joy to the eye! Sure we can debate for hours if he´s whort max money! He´s offensive game was just crazy and yes i admit he wasnt "Dwight Howardish" on the boards! Is he worth max money for his offensive game = YES, for his defensive game = Well he didnt do that bad. Could been worse! Bottom line is that we will miss Stat and yes he still is the best PF in the leauge….hands down!

  • 37 Steve // Jul 14, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    I would have appreciated Amare more if his paycheck and ego looked a little more like guys who produce at his rate. Amare was a great Sun, and I hope that someday he gets into the Ring of Honor. But he’s not worth max money, especially not when the best player on the team is only making about $11M.

  • 38 ghost of Darko // Jul 16, 2010 at 10:25 am

    @Steve: by your metrics Nash isn’t a winner either. and if you’re gonna bash Amare for postseason failures, you should also point out Nash’s numerous deadly late-game turnovers. there are lots of situations where the best player on a team isn’t the highest paid.

    again, it comes back to Sarver. in this market, clearly someone was gonna give Amare max money – which in all likelihood meant he was gone. Sarver should’ve had an aggressive plan in place to replace him (Bosh or more realistically Boozer). Sarver did neither, then, worse still, took a reactionary approach which will make things worse for much longer.

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    [...] the Suns first acquired Hedo I tried to convince myself that he was a good fit but always questioned whether he could play the four. We soon found out that [...]

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