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	<title>Comments on: The one redeeming stroke of good luck</title>
	<atom:link href="http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/</link>
	<description>Phoenix Suns basketball blog. The hottest source in the Valley for Suns news, rumors and analysis with a fresh perspective from ESPN&#039;s TrueHoop affiliate.</description>
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		<title>By: Simply the best&#124; Valley of the Suns</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17834</link>
		<dc:creator>Simply the best&#124; Valley of the Suns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17834</guid>
		<description>[...] that analysis of how the Suns lucked out from a Dallas front office meltdown posted earlier this week, this will be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that analysis of how the Suns lucked out from a Dallas front office meltdown posted earlier this week, this will be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17697</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17697</guid>
		<description>benway37-

Other than the Dampier contract for next year (which I&#039;m not sure about), Michael has painted an accurate picture. It is flawed reasoning to say that signing Dampier was better than signing Nash just because Dallas made it to the Finals and Phoenix didn&#039;t. That&#039;s apples and oranges. 

From a basketball standpoint, would the investment in Nash or in Dampier have been a better choice? That&#039;s a subjective decision that each person would need to decide for themselves. I would easily choose Nash, even for that Dallas team. Others might decide differently. But team success is not the deciding factor in whether one player is better than another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>benway37-</p>
<p>Other than the Dampier contract for next year (which I&#8217;m not sure about), Michael has painted an accurate picture. It is flawed reasoning to say that signing Dampier was better than signing Nash just because Dallas made it to the Finals and Phoenix didn&#8217;t. That&#8217;s apples and oranges. </p>
<p>From a basketball standpoint, would the investment in Nash or in Dampier have been a better choice? That&#8217;s a subjective decision that each person would need to decide for themselves. I would easily choose Nash, even for that Dallas team. Others might decide differently. But team success is not the deciding factor in whether one player is better than another.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17668</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17668</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I thought I&#039;d heard that about Damp&#039;s deal when the short-lived Shaq rumors were going down. But I remember it originally being 7 years, $73 mil and Hoopshype doesn&#039;t have 2010-11 as an option, they have it as a straight contract year, so that&#039;s why I reported that that way. It seems like the fans here certainly are none to pleased with Sarver and Kerr. Kerr has certainly made some misguided moves (like the Shaq trade) and Sarver has paid a bit too much attention to his wallet, to say it lightly. The dealt draft picks are what get me most, but you also have to remember that Suns fans were spoiled with decades of Jerry Colangelo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I thought I&#8217;d heard that about Damp&#8217;s deal when the short-lived Shaq rumors were going down. But I remember it originally being 7 years, $73 mil and Hoopshype doesn&#8217;t have 2010-11 as an option, they have it as a straight contract year, so that&#8217;s why I reported that that way. It seems like the fans here certainly are none to pleased with Sarver and Kerr. Kerr has certainly made some misguided moves (like the Shaq trade) and Sarver has paid a bit too much attention to his wallet, to say it lightly. The dealt draft picks are what get me most, but you also have to remember that Suns fans were spoiled with decades of Jerry Colangelo.</p>
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		<title>By: Heard It Through the Grapevine &#187; The Two Man Game</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17634</link>
		<dc:creator>Heard It Through the Grapevine &#187; The Two Man Game</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17634</guid>
		<description>[...] recount of the fateful 2004 summer that brought Steve Nash&#8217;s departure and the acquisition of Erick Dampier.  I&#8217;m not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recount of the fateful 2004 summer that brought Steve Nash&#8217;s departure and the acquisition of Erick Dampier.  I&#8217;m not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17648</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17648</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget that was also the Summer Phoenix tried to trade for McGrady. 
Would Phoenix have tried to sign Nash if it had successfully traded for T-Mac? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#039;t forget that was also the Summer Phoenix tried to trade for McGrady.</p>
<p>Would Phoenix have tried to sign Nash if it had successfully traded for T-Mac? </p>
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		<title>By: jt</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17642</link>
		<dc:creator>jt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17642</guid>
		<description>I winder if we bring back Finley would he average 30 and be league MVP..hahah..I wonder if we&#039;re gonna trade Pavlovic and Richardson..I hope so cant wait til the 26 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I winder if we bring back Finley would he average 30 and be league MVP..hahah..I wonder if we&#039;re gonna trade Pavlovic and Richardson..I hope so cant wait til the 26 </p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17617</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17617</guid>
		<description>Agreed... I definitely appreciate a positive outlook as a nice change of pace from the doomsayers running around saying it&#039;s the End of Days for the Suns.  I think the roster is certainly good enough with the right style to win a good number of games in the regular season and make the playoffs as long as Stoudemire or Nash do not get seriously hurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed&#8230; I definitely appreciate a positive outlook as a nice change of pace from the doomsayers running around saying it&#8217;s the End of Days for the Suns.  I think the roster is certainly good enough with the right style to win a good number of games in the regular season and make the playoffs as long as Stoudemire or Nash do not get seriously hurt.</p>
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		<title>By: benway37</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17637</link>
		<dc:creator>benway37</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17637</guid>
		<description>Hate to break it to you, but this is flawed reasoning. 
First off, it is funny that you mentioned the Suns were willing to give him &quot;Mike Bibby money&quot;, because Nash covering Bibby throughout a couple playoff series for Dallas definitely helped Bibby make &quot;Mike Bibby money.&quot;  
That whole defensive liability thing is not just a throw away. Covering yr man on D and preventing him from scoring is actually half the game, especially if he&#039;s not even one of his team&#039;s &quot;go-to&quot; options. 
As for Cuban overspending on Dampier vs. not paying Nash:  
Yes, Dampier is grossly overpaid, but it&#039;s apples to oranges. Not overpaying for Nash and overpaying for Dampier are mutually exclusive, but if you want to lump them together, then tell the story: Overpaid Damp has played in the Finals, Nash hasn&#039;t. Overpaid Damp played on a team that went through Nash&#039;s team in 06. The Mavs have been a better team with overpaid Damp then they were with Nash. 
They have been a more successful team than the Suns since Nash departed one and joined the other. 
Clearly Damp is not the reason for any of this, and clearly Nash has made PHX much much better, but a comparison of the contracts without a look at the result is irresponsible. 
Secondly, yr contract info is wrong. Dampier is not guaranteed beyond this season, which means that while he has been overpaid throughout the length of his contract, that contract now has immense value b/c it can be used as an expiring trade chip this year, OR it can be used as an immediate expiring after the season (A sign and trade which the other team can take back his $13m and cut him immediately, never paying a dime.) Painting Dampier&#039;s contract as a sort of albatross is only half-accurate- it has been an albatross, but it is now a very good asset to have since half the teams (including PHX) are cash strapped franchises. Dampier&#039;s contract is now exactly the kind of chip that Cuban can use to send financial relief to a team who has a superstar but is middling in the 9 seed and below region. Maybe a team with a disgruntled big man who plays for an owner notoriously prone to making cash first decisions (yeah, PHX and Amare fit that description- be very afraid). 
Cuban actually has several of these contracts at his disposal right now, so the notion that he is mindlessly throwing money at problems is inaccurate. Even Drew Gooden&#039;s newly signed deal is guaranteed for $2m but worth over $5m of salary to a potential trade partner. 
Lastly, the whole Kidd vs. Nash thing:  
Both PGs are in their mid-30s and both have games that are obviously in decline. I would say on paper Nash is better, but again, Kidd can guard the 2 and his recent team has gone further than Nash&#039;s. 
Both were rumored to be courted by the Knicks, suggesting that D&#039;Antoni would be happy for either one of them to run his offense.  
Having said that, consider that Dallas signed Kidd to 3 yrs/25 million and PHX signed Nash to 2 yrs/22 million. 
I&#039;m not trying to rain on the PHX parade. I&#039;m not sure what the Suns are doing the last couple of years and so it is hard to project where they fit. I don&#039; t think they are better than they were a few years ago, and the whole Shaq thing has thrown off any notion that there is a plan. I don&#039;t follow the Suns closely, so you guys tell me, is most of the sentiment here for new owenrship, a new gm, or both? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to break it to you, but this is flawed reasoning.</p>
<p>First off, it is funny that you mentioned the Suns were willing to give him &quot;Mike Bibby money&quot;, because Nash covering Bibby throughout a couple playoff series for Dallas definitely helped Bibby make &quot;Mike Bibby money.&quot; </p>
<p>That whole defensive liability thing is not just a throw away. Covering yr man on D and preventing him from scoring is actually half the game, especially if he&#039;s not even one of his team&#039;s &quot;go-to&quot; options.</p>
<p>As for Cuban overspending on Dampier vs. not paying Nash: </p>
<p>Yes, Dampier is grossly overpaid, but it&#039;s apples to oranges. Not overpaying for Nash and overpaying for Dampier are mutually exclusive, but if you want to lump them together, then tell the story: Overpaid Damp has played in the Finals, Nash hasn&#039;t. Overpaid Damp played on a team that went through Nash&#039;s team in 06. The Mavs have been a better team with overpaid Damp then they were with Nash.</p>
<p>They have been a more successful team than the Suns since Nash departed one and joined the other.</p>
<p>Clearly Damp is not the reason for any of this, and clearly Nash has made PHX much much better, but a comparison of the contracts without a look at the result is irresponsible.</p>
<p>Secondly, yr contract info is wrong. Dampier is not guaranteed beyond this season, which means that while he has been overpaid throughout the length of his contract, that contract now has immense value b/c it can be used as an expiring trade chip this year, OR it can be used as an immediate expiring after the season (A sign and trade which the other team can take back his $13m and cut him immediately, never paying a dime.) Painting Dampier&#039;s contract as a sort of albatross is only half-accurate- it has been an albatross, but it is now a very good asset to have since half the teams (including PHX) are cash strapped franchises. Dampier&#039;s contract is now exactly the kind of chip that Cuban can use to send financial relief to a team who has a superstar but is middling in the 9 seed and below region. Maybe a team with a disgruntled big man who plays for an owner notoriously prone to making cash first decisions (yeah, PHX and Amare fit that description- be very afraid).</p>
<p>Cuban actually has several of these contracts at his disposal right now, so the notion that he is mindlessly throwing money at problems is inaccurate. Even Drew Gooden&#039;s newly signed deal is guaranteed for $2m but worth over $5m of salary to a potential trade partner.</p>
<p>Lastly, the whole Kidd vs. Nash thing: </p>
<p>Both PGs are in their mid-30s and both have games that are obviously in decline. I would say on paper Nash is better, but again, Kidd can guard the 2 and his recent team has gone further than Nash&#039;s.</p>
<p>Both were rumored to be courted by the Knicks, suggesting that D&#039;Antoni would be happy for either one of them to run his offense. </p>
<p>Having said that, consider that Dallas signed Kidd to 3 yrs/25 million and PHX signed Nash to 2 yrs/22 million.</p>
<p>I&#039;m not trying to rain on the PHX parade. I&#039;m not sure what the Suns are doing the last couple of years and so it is hard to project where they fit. I don&#039; t think they are better than they were a few years ago, and the whole Shaq thing has thrown off any notion that there is a plan. I don&#039;t follow the Suns closely, so you guys tell me, is most of the sentiment here for new owenrship, a new gm, or both? </p>
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		<title>By: CassavaLeaf</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17635</link>
		<dc:creator>CassavaLeaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17635</guid>
		<description>The Raja Bell signing was under rated also! 
No one had him pegged as such a difference maker, but  
I would say that after the Nash, Amar&#039;e &amp;  Marion trio he was THE most important Sun </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Raja Bell signing was under rated also!</p>
<p>No one had him pegged as such a difference maker, but </p>
<p>I would say that after the Nash, Amar&#039;e &amp;  Marion trio he was THE most important Sun </p>
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		<title>By: Anjoe</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/08/11/the-one-redeeming-stroke-of-good-luck/comment-page-1/#comment-17633</link>
		<dc:creator>Anjoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6531#comment-17633</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe it&#039;s only been 2 years since the Amare/Diaw suspensions, seems like forever ago </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#039;t believe it&#039;s only been 2 years since the Amare/Diaw suspensions, seems like forever ago </p>
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