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	<title>Comments on: The Nash extension question</title>
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	<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/</link>
	<description>Phoenix Suns basketball blog. The hottest source in the Valley for Suns news, rumors and analysis with a fresh perspective from ESPN&#039;s TrueHoop affiliate.</description>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16356</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16356</guid>
		<description>ESPN: Nash to sign today for 2 yrs, $22 million.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESPN: Nash to sign today for 2 yrs, $22 million.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16318</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16318</guid>
		<description>How about we trade Amare and Tucker to NY for Lee and Robinson and Jordan Hill. We can get Hill because D&#039;Antoni does not believe in using rookies and Knicks will maybe agree to sign and trades for Nate and Lee. This gives us more young talent that still is not in their prime yet. Then we only have to see Amare and D&#039;Phony twice a year. Amare will not be required to play any defense and everyone comes away happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about we trade Amare and Tucker to NY for Lee and Robinson and Jordan Hill. We can get Hill because D&#8217;Antoni does not believe in using rookies and Knicks will maybe agree to sign and trades for Nate and Lee. This gives us more young talent that still is not in their prime yet. Then we only have to see Amare and D&#8217;Phony twice a year. Amare will not be required to play any defense and everyone comes away happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Artur Baguete Mascarenhas</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16313</link>
		<dc:creator>Artur Baguete Mascarenhas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16313</guid>
		<description>I cant agree more with Will... excellent coments and I&#039;d be thrilled to trade Amare for Kirk and Tyrus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cant agree more with Will&#8230; excellent coments and I&#8217;d be thrilled to trade Amare for Kirk and Tyrus.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16254</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16254</guid>
		<description>Bob - 

I&#039;m right with you on the cash for draft picks philosophy. It&#039;s obvious we&#039;re getting burned by it. Nothing stings more than Rondo. He&#039;s tailor-made for run-n-gun. 

Trading the rights to  Deng made sense at the time because we had Marion, who we thought was going to be a Sun for life. We also had JJ who could play SF and we were a week away from signing Q, another SG-SF. 

The problem is that there were several superior players available @ 7 they could have had instead of Deng: Al Jefferson, Andre Igudola, Kevin Martin, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Delonte West, Jameer Nelson. 

Your take on trades is 1/2 right. What I think you&#039;re saying is &quot;ideally&quot; when you make a trade, you get superior talent in return. The situation with Amare is no longer ideal, and his reputation is known all over the league. The Suns will not get superior talent in return. If they had tried to trade him last off-season, they would have gotten a lot more than they can now. 

Don&#039;t hope for the trade where we get the better end of the deal. It&#039;s not happening. 

You can&#039;t replace Amare in a trade. Because your trade partner has a need at PF/C, that&#039;s why you offer them Amare. But you can get value in return at different positions. That&#039;s the only play PHX has, otherwise he walks in a year. 

You also bring forward a theory about how the right coach would make him better defensively. Maybe, maybe not. Flip Saunders can&#039;t coach a lick of D, but Garnett developed into one of the best defensive post players in the last 10 years in MIN. Garnett had the desire to get better defensively. Amare is too busy changing agents and uniform numbers talking about how he deserves max money. 

I&#039;m not saying he can&#039;t learn - he just hasn&#039;t shown that he wants to. His mid-range shot is better, his FT% has gone up. He spent entire off-seasons working on those elements of his game. Why hasn&#039;t there been ANY signs of defensive improvement in 7 seasons? He fouls at the same rate, players burn him with the same moves. He makes the same mistakes now that he made when he was a rookie 18 year old. 

That&#039;s a sign he doesn&#039;t care about D. While I agree that none of his coaches have either, it&#039;s obvious that a no D philosophy has not/will not work. 

So why keep him then? To build something new that still won&#039;t work? No thanks. 40 + years of great regulars seasons and playoff heartbreak is enough for this fan. 

Ship him to the Eastern Conference for whatever we can get and  start over in 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob &#8211; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m right with you on the cash for draft picks philosophy. It&#8217;s obvious we&#8217;re getting burned by it. Nothing stings more than Rondo. He&#8217;s tailor-made for run-n-gun. </p>
<p>Trading the rights to  Deng made sense at the time because we had Marion, who we thought was going to be a Sun for life. We also had JJ who could play SF and we were a week away from signing Q, another SG-SF. </p>
<p>The problem is that there were several superior players available @ 7 they could have had instead of Deng: Al Jefferson, Andre Igudola, Kevin Martin, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Delonte West, Jameer Nelson. </p>
<p>Your take on trades is 1/2 right. What I think you&#8217;re saying is &#8220;ideally&#8221; when you make a trade, you get superior talent in return. The situation with Amare is no longer ideal, and his reputation is known all over the league. The Suns will not get superior talent in return. If they had tried to trade him last off-season, they would have gotten a lot more than they can now. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t hope for the trade where we get the better end of the deal. It&#8217;s not happening. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t replace Amare in a trade. Because your trade partner has a need at PF/C, that&#8217;s why you offer them Amare. But you can get value in return at different positions. That&#8217;s the only play PHX has, otherwise he walks in a year. </p>
<p>You also bring forward a theory about how the right coach would make him better defensively. Maybe, maybe not. Flip Saunders can&#8217;t coach a lick of D, but Garnett developed into one of the best defensive post players in the last 10 years in MIN. Garnett had the desire to get better defensively. Amare is too busy changing agents and uniform numbers talking about how he deserves max money. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying he can&#8217;t learn &#8211; he just hasn&#8217;t shown that he wants to. His mid-range shot is better, his FT% has gone up. He spent entire off-seasons working on those elements of his game. Why hasn&#8217;t there been ANY signs of defensive improvement in 7 seasons? He fouls at the same rate, players burn him with the same moves. He makes the same mistakes now that he made when he was a rookie 18 year old. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a sign he doesn&#8217;t care about D. While I agree that none of his coaches have either, it&#8217;s obvious that a no D philosophy has not/will not work. </p>
<p>So why keep him then? To build something new that still won&#8217;t work? No thanks. 40 + years of great regulars seasons and playoff heartbreak is enough for this fan. </p>
<p>Ship him to the Eastern Conference for whatever we can get and  start over in 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Hope</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16250</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16250</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately due to the Suns selling picks they don&#039;t have Rondo ready to take over from Nash now. They are forced to sign him with no #1 pick in 2010, another stupid money related move, and no avalable young free agent PG to sign.

 Amare has never been taught to play team defense, playing for a half dozen high school coaches, no college  and then D&#039;Antoni. The ability is there to be taught. They need a big man coach who is not Cartright to teach him. The Suns don&#039;t pay for coaches since Sarver has been here. Amare&#039;s defensive skil set is quite different than Cartright&#039;s. Kareem sat here on an Arizona Indian Reservation coaching looking for an NBA job. The Suns didn&#039;t give him a look and he is now with LA. Look around and you don&#039;t see many big guys Amare&#039;s age or younger that can produce like he does. Try and replace him. Who is the best guy avaliable and you won&#039;t be able to do it. You don&#039;t trade players unless you can get  better talent.

 That is why this team is where it is. Every trade they have made was to fix a perceived problem, yet every time they got less talent. Talent wins NBA games. Joe Johnson for Diaw and the pick that was Lopez, Marion for Shaq, J-Rich/ Dudley  for Diaw and Bell and of course K. Thomas and 2 #one picks for nothing. Selling all the talented picks for cash, Deng, Gortat, Rondo and Fernandez. With the minds in the front office and lack of cash to spend they will get no better. Forget about it. They should have had a talented mix of youth and veterans now to contend for a title instead of what they have which looks like a .500 team in the West with Amare, aging vets and a bunch of role players, none of which can play defense more than at an average level.

No one will take J-Rich&#039;s deal. They are stuck with him and his obvious personal problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately due to the Suns selling picks they don&#8217;t have Rondo ready to take over from Nash now. They are forced to sign him with no #1 pick in 2010, another stupid money related move, and no avalable young free agent PG to sign.</p>
<p> Amare has never been taught to play team defense, playing for a half dozen high school coaches, no college  and then D&#8217;Antoni. The ability is there to be taught. They need a big man coach who is not Cartright to teach him. The Suns don&#8217;t pay for coaches since Sarver has been here. Amare&#8217;s defensive skil set is quite different than Cartright&#8217;s. Kareem sat here on an Arizona Indian Reservation coaching looking for an NBA job. The Suns didn&#8217;t give him a look and he is now with LA. Look around and you don&#8217;t see many big guys Amare&#8217;s age or younger that can produce like he does. Try and replace him. Who is the best guy avaliable and you won&#8217;t be able to do it. You don&#8217;t trade players unless you can get  better talent.</p>
<p> That is why this team is where it is. Every trade they have made was to fix a perceived problem, yet every time they got less talent. Talent wins NBA games. Joe Johnson for Diaw and the pick that was Lopez, Marion for Shaq, J-Rich/ Dudley  for Diaw and Bell and of course K. Thomas and 2 #one picks for nothing. Selling all the talented picks for cash, Deng, Gortat, Rondo and Fernandez. With the minds in the front office and lack of cash to spend they will get no better. Forget about it. They should have had a talented mix of youth and veterans now to contend for a title instead of what they have which looks like a .500 team in the West with Amare, aging vets and a bunch of role players, none of which can play defense more than at an average level.</p>
<p>No one will take J-Rich&#8217;s deal. They are stuck with him and his obvious personal problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16241</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16241</guid>
		<description>I think  resigning Nash is huge because we don&#039;t have the PG that we trust to come in for Nash. Also having Nash and Hill, two of the classiest guys in the league to mentor and teach our young player is a dream situation. (Think Tony Clark and the Dbacks 3 years ago, they let him go thinking he didn&#039;t do much and brought him right back when they realized how wrong they were)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think  resigning Nash is huge because we don&#8217;t have the PG that we trust to come in for Nash. Also having Nash and Hill, two of the classiest guys in the league to mentor and teach our young player is a dream situation. (Think Tony Clark and the Dbacks 3 years ago, they let him go thinking he didn&#8217;t do much and brought him right back when they realized how wrong they were)</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16237</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16237</guid>
		<description>You don&#039;t re-sign Nash because you can build around him, you re-sign him because of what he did for the franchise. He&#039;s responsible for the most exciting era of Suns basketball, is a 1st ballot HOFer, and an immediate inductee on the Suns Ring of Honor. 

If not for this Suns era, the NBA would still be stuck in those 74-69 final scores we saw at the beginning of the decade. Nash made high octane offense cool again.  He helped change the sport for the better. 

He won&#039;t average 18 &amp; 12 again, but he&#039;ll still be a top 5 PG for a few more years, and there&#039;s no scenario where PHX could pry away a better PG from another team. 

It wasn&#039;t Nash&#039;s fault they missed the playoffs last year. He was the reason they almost made it. Last year&#039;s team didn&#039;t even come close to having the depth/versatility of the 05-08 teams. Without Nash, PHX would have been lucky to win 35 games. 

The real question is whether Dragic is the heir to the PHX PG throne. I don&#039;t know if he is. 

If anyone has to go - it&#039;s Amare. I don&#039;t care how many points he scores. He has no commitment to individual or team defense.  He&#039;s a head-case more interested in changing his nickname than he is improving the glaring weaknesses in his game.  STAT is a great scorer, a great fantasy player, but he&#039;s a locker room cancer and he IS NOT a great player. Not all great players play great defense, but all great players commit to trying. 

If I&#039;m Kerr, I&#039;m talking with Chicago about sending STAT to the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas (it works on the Trade Machine). Hinrich has 3 years left on his deal, can learn from the best PG of this generation, and be in the prime of his career right when Nash is about to end his. 

Hinrich is also the best PG in basketball who isn&#039;t untouchable. The Suns have no shot to get someone like Parker, Rondo, Rose, Devin Harris, Williams or CP3, but they need a legit option, and barring  the Suns drafting their PG of the future, Hinrich may be the best option out there. 

Hinrich is a great shooter, a phenomenal team player and one of the better defensive PGs in the league. He can run, too.  

You take your lumps in &#039;09 and if Thomas is still an underachiever, let him walk and you have 4 all-star caliber guards (SN, KH, LB &amp; JR) and you use your cap room to bring in the best PF/C and SF/PF you can afford.   

They already have the makings of a good bench (Lou, Dudley, Bizzaro Lopez, Channing Frye, LB, Earl Clark). Bring in 1 max contract big in &#039;10 and some other complimentary pieces, and they&#039;re right back in the hunt. 

I don&#039;t care what popular opinion is - I know 68% of fans on AZCentral want Amare to stay. It&#039;s never been about the 30 points he scores. It&#039;s always been about the stupid fouls, the complete lack of defensive awareness, and the me-first attitude (&quot;I&#039;m not a captain.&quot;) Send him packing, save the franchise. 

If they keep STAT and extend his contract, once again the Suns are a 45-55 win team with no shot to do anything significant. 

Garnett wasn&#039;t great until he committed to defense. Neither was Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, Karl Malone. All of those players changed philosophy and committed to defense by age 26. If Amare was planning on joining them, he would have done it by now.  

Think about it - he hasn&#039;t even committed to rebounding. Someone with his size, wingspan, vertical leap  and athleticism only averages 8-9 boards a game? That&#039;s a lack of effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t re-sign Nash because you can build around him, you re-sign him because of what he did for the franchise. He&#8217;s responsible for the most exciting era of Suns basketball, is a 1st ballot HOFer, and an immediate inductee on the Suns Ring of Honor. </p>
<p>If not for this Suns era, the NBA would still be stuck in those 74-69 final scores we saw at the beginning of the decade. Nash made high octane offense cool again.  He helped change the sport for the better. </p>
<p>He won&#8217;t average 18 &amp; 12 again, but he&#8217;ll still be a top 5 PG for a few more years, and there&#8217;s no scenario where PHX could pry away a better PG from another team. </p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t Nash&#8217;s fault they missed the playoffs last year. He was the reason they almost made it. Last year&#8217;s team didn&#8217;t even come close to having the depth/versatility of the 05-08 teams. Without Nash, PHX would have been lucky to win 35 games. </p>
<p>The real question is whether Dragic is the heir to the PHX PG throne. I don&#8217;t know if he is. </p>
<p>If anyone has to go &#8211; it&#8217;s Amare. I don&#8217;t care how many points he scores. He has no commitment to individual or team defense.  He&#8217;s a head-case more interested in changing his nickname than he is improving the glaring weaknesses in his game.  STAT is a great scorer, a great fantasy player, but he&#8217;s a locker room cancer and he IS NOT a great player. Not all great players play great defense, but all great players commit to trying. </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m Kerr, I&#8217;m talking with Chicago about sending STAT to the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas (it works on the Trade Machine). Hinrich has 3 years left on his deal, can learn from the best PG of this generation, and be in the prime of his career right when Nash is about to end his. </p>
<p>Hinrich is also the best PG in basketball who isn&#8217;t untouchable. The Suns have no shot to get someone like Parker, Rondo, Rose, Devin Harris, Williams or CP3, but they need a legit option, and barring  the Suns drafting their PG of the future, Hinrich may be the best option out there. </p>
<p>Hinrich is a great shooter, a phenomenal team player and one of the better defensive PGs in the league. He can run, too.  </p>
<p>You take your lumps in &#8217;09 and if Thomas is still an underachiever, let him walk and you have 4 all-star caliber guards (SN, KH, LB &amp; JR) and you use your cap room to bring in the best PF/C and SF/PF you can afford.   </p>
<p>They already have the makings of a good bench (Lou, Dudley, Bizzaro Lopez, Channing Frye, LB, Earl Clark). Bring in 1 max contract big in &#8217;10 and some other complimentary pieces, and they&#8217;re right back in the hunt. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care what popular opinion is &#8211; I know 68% of fans on AZCentral want Amare to stay. It&#8217;s never been about the 30 points he scores. It&#8217;s always been about the stupid fouls, the complete lack of defensive awareness, and the me-first attitude (&#8220;I&#8217;m not a captain.&#8221;) Send him packing, save the franchise. </p>
<p>If they keep STAT and extend his contract, once again the Suns are a 45-55 win team with no shot to do anything significant. </p>
<p>Garnett wasn&#8217;t great until he committed to defense. Neither was Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, Karl Malone. All of those players changed philosophy and committed to defense by age 26. If Amare was planning on joining them, he would have done it by now.  </p>
<p>Think about it &#8211; he hasn&#8217;t even committed to rebounding. Someone with his size, wingspan, vertical leap  and athleticism only averages 8-9 boards a game? That&#8217;s a lack of effort.</p>
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		<title>By: AC</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16204</link>
		<dc:creator>AC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 04:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16204</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m all about Nash sticking around to help develop the youth.  I was hoping that Hill would seek a winning team to get him his ring, but I&#039;m not complaining that he stayed.  All of the youth and talent is great but if there aren&#039;t players to groom them they won&#039;t reach their full potential.  As Suns fans I think we just have to accept the fact that we aren&#039;t going to have a winning team again for a few years and it&#039;s hard for us because we have been spoiled over the past 6 years or so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all about Nash sticking around to help develop the youth.  I was hoping that Hill would seek a winning team to get him his ring, but I&#8217;m not complaining that he stayed.  All of the youth and talent is great but if there aren&#8217;t players to groom them they won&#8217;t reach their full potential.  As Suns fans I think we just have to accept the fact that we aren&#8217;t going to have a winning team again for a few years and it&#8217;s hard for us because we have been spoiled over the past 6 years or so.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin B</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16188</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16188</guid>
		<description>Man I wish we signed Tyson Chandler...The Hornets are so desperate we probably could have gotten their 2010 pick from them as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man I wish we signed Tyson Chandler&#8230;The Hornets are so desperate we probably could have gotten their 2010 pick from them as well.</p>
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		<title>By: FanFeedr</title>
		<link>http://valleyofthesuns.com/2009/07/17/the-nash-extension-question/comment-page-1/#comment-16185</link>
		<dc:creator>FanFeedr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://valleyofthesuns.com/?p=6105#comment-16185</guid>
		<description>Another point to consider is who would replace Nash if he was traded or let go. That is just a math problem, and it doesn&#039;t work if you slot Dragic or Barbosa at the one (and Andre Miller doesn&#039;t have the wheels.)
Nash is their best option at the point, and it is a matter of paying him fair market value rather than paying him based on sentiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another point to consider is who would replace Nash if he was traded or let go. That is just a math problem, and it doesn&#8217;t work if you slot Dragic or Barbosa at the one (and Andre Miller doesn&#8217;t have the wheels.)<br />
Nash is their best option at the point, and it is a matter of paying him fair market value rather than paying him based on sentiment.</p>
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